Re: Looking for Microcontroller Recommendations

So you'll have to program 2 devices, keep 2 versions of software in sync, place 2 devices, use more boardspace and have no way to move to a different platform without rewriting from scratch if you have to. Sounds like an excellent product I can redesign (I actually make a lot of money doing such projects) to cut the product cost in half using an ARM controller.

On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Jan 2010 16:06:28 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

Yes, but the reason was actually not code space related but I/O pins.

Now if that was the biggest problem, I have almost 1000 software versions out there, this morning an other email about one with suggested code improvements. Thats is how open source works, pfff 2 versions.... don't overwork yourself:-)

So, 18 extra pins, I wonder how many I/O pins that ARM solution of yours has.

Oh yes, that really is a worry if you have 1 cubic decimeter available...NOT.

Why move? PICs last as long as the FLASH last, so does your ARM.

Product lifetime... think about it.

Well, if you design mama dolls that say 'Hello World', or 'I need to pee', and they are reproduced in the millions, I guess you should consider PIC. There is a single chip PIC solution that says 'I am mister Ed' on the web somewhere, you can learn about PIC programming from it, I did. In the movie I did see last night they had a doll that did say 'I love you' when you pressed it, and 10 seconds later it would explode, for that sort of design PIC is also a perfect solution. Why bother with something as obscure as ARM? I expect the big cellphone manufacturers to move to x86 too, it is so much more appealing to the market if cellphones can run win 7..

WTF do people use sigs, it is wasted bandwidth, says the same thing over and over again like an idiot, and it is annoying to have to read it every time again to see it is crap.

snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks

versions out there,

yourself:-)

has.

available...NOT.

pee',

PIC.

web somewhere,

you'

much

A cell phone running MSwin7? You are hilarious. That bloatware that can= bring=20 a 1.5 GHz processor with 1/2 GiB of ram to its knees? Not to mention = having=20 about a 10 GiB minimum disk footprint.

and over again like an idiot,

crap.

there,

As many as you need. ARM devices go from 32pin packages to 100+ pin packages. Placing one package is cheaper than placing two. Programming one device is cheaper than two.

Changing product requirements? Products getting obsolete? A lot of people don't realize it but for companies that do software development the software is the most valuable asset the company owns in terms of investment. Having to rewrite and retest known-good-code is a huge waste of money.

On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jan 2010 22:08:06 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

That is why PICs are so nice, they have been around for ages, Microchip keeps making them, the old architectures are still around after all this time, very easy to add a feature, I just did that yesterday. Unlike some other manufacturers who obsolete architectures and chips on an almost weekly basis. Or have great chips on paper that you cannot buy anywhere however (Xilinx comes to mind), ridiculously expensive if you have to get low quantities,. No foe me PIC anytime, they are the work horse of industry. ARM is just an obscure idea that has been trying to make mainstream for years, and never succeeded. They have good a PR team perhaps. The next step up after a PIC is a x86 mobo for embedded systems.

At what price? There are two ways a manufacturor forces you to new products: obsolete or triple the price. Renesas also carries a lot of old stuff. If you don't want to re-design you pay for it. It costs money to keep old

almost weekly basis.

to mind),

How about Motorola?

Xilinx's Virtex series are expensive as always. If you want production, you need Spartan.

and never succeeded.

A cpu which sells 2.45 billion units in a year is definitely mainstream.

"ARM's 2006 annual report and accounts state that royalties totalling

(from

Now you're trolling.

On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:14:05 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

almost weekly basis.

comes to mind),

and never succeeded.

No, this is true, why bother with ARM when you can get a good small mobo for

Now you are trying to sell me a car without seats and tires. Ofcourse I want it to have memory, storage, connection to an LVDS LCD panel, some real integrated parallel I/O and a PSU that runs from some DC voltage source (lets say 5V or 12V) ofcourse. I know about these boards; we use them as little as possible. If you want a complete system you'll get close to 200 euro. Add some add-on boards for I/O and a decent audio interface and you get close to 300 euro. And there are many reliability issues. I know from experience that it takes a lot of work to turn such a board into a reliable solution. And these is always a fan running that needs to be replaced approx. every

A beagleboard fits the bill much better and costs half your solution.

almost weekly basis.

to mind),

If that's what gets you excited you must be madly in love with the

and never succeeded.

Don't be an asshole. I know it's hard...

On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:52:10 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

If you need an embedded solution, and have space, there is time to market, design cost, and cost of software tools. This is 90 % of all that of the shelf for 70 Euro.

If you design from scratch (with any processor), and say need USB PCI Par port serial SATA then you are in for a lot more, a LOT more. And then you still need to design that I/O it was about in the first place. If you ever designed a PCI card, and know the interface, then all you have to concentrate on is that, for the rest there are many mobos, so good second source. For the par port, I run strings of i2c chips from it, perfect for multitasking as i2c is not delay sensitive. The first time I did it that way was in the eighties when i2c was born, and I still do it today. Then there is the serial ports etc.. How much memory you want or need is up to you, you just plug it in. As far as reliability is concerned, that only gets better the more is integrated in the CPU. Less chance for the mobo designer to f*ck up. And most mobos I have here, some very old ISA, just run fine today. The change of a defective memory chip is much bigger, and that would hit you too if you did your own. Anyways, no arguing, not giving away more secrets, I would have to charge you consultancy cost, but you can alway email geld_speelt_geen_rol at panteltje dot com.

I am not sure for how much you would sell a complete ARM system with same capabilities. Buy a netbook?

Not so, these boards now also exists with passive cooling!

Kids stuff, does not even have Ethernet, does not accept my PCI cards either, no par port, DOA. No win 7, no LTSpice in Wine.

snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks

yesterday.

an almost weekly basis.

(Xilinx comes to mind),

years, and never succeeded.

Then how come it is still not that common in embedded systems.

The upcoming Cortex devices will have PCI express. I expect somewhere this summer.

I was comparing an off-the-shelf solution to your off-the-shelf solution.

On a sunny day (Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:57:51 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

Then mine came a out a whole lot better :-)

almost weekly basis.

comes to mind),

and never succeeded.

The 80186/8 were quite popular in the embedded space.

for >>>>

If more expensive is better...

On a sunny day (Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:41:50 GMT) it happened snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote in :

for >>>>>

More features is better, for example a babana is cheaper, but has less features.

snipped-for-privacy@puntnl.niks

development

yesterday.

on an almost weekly basis.

(Xilinx comes to mind),

for years, and never succeeded.

Nice historical note. At the time there was few 16 bit chips for = embedded use. =20 The i860 and i960 were also popular for a time; as was/are some 68K = derivatives,=20 which are still in common use.