question about solid conductor, solid wires in detonator circuit?

Does anyone know why commercial detonators have small gage solid conductor leg wires? And why only solid conductor wire is recommended in a blast circuit?

I have an idea, but I cannot be sure. I have some electrical/physics knowledge, and I understand that both solid wire and stranded wire have advantages, but I do not understand the details as to the why solid wires are chosen in commercial caps. There is so much unreliable info on the web about comparisons between solid and stranded wire - especially as it pertains to the home audio and data communication industries. Some of the info is contradictory. It is hard to sift through it all.

Here is what I know on the subject: The DC current carrying capacity between solid and stranded wire is negligible in most cases.

I understand that skin effect allows higher frequency AC to travel easier through stranded wire than it does through solid wire because of the increased surface area due to multiple strands. Although, at least a high frequencies, I believe that the benefit gained from skin effect is in turn lessened by the slight inductances that can set up between individual strands. Then there is the matter of corrosion throughout a stranded wire on the surface the strands or between strands that grows with time. No doubt these inductances etc. degrade signals - I am assuming that that is the main reason that CAT5/6 is solid conductor. It seems that stranded wire is only advised for CAT 5/6 when patching and where physical stress is expected on the wire.

I am aware that DC voltage is used to fire a detonator. However, at least in case of an EBW, foil, etc., the current pulse rise times are so fast that, the waveform appears as critical as the current and voltage delivered. High frequency? at least for one pulse?

Then there is the notion of physical durability of wire. In cases of physical usage, stranded wire outperforms solid sire due to its flexibility. However a detonator is not a repeated use item.

I am sure that stranded wire will work in a blast circuit in the real world. There are plenty of sites for homebrew detonators that instruct the maker to use stranded wire. But, I am specifically speaking of the sole use solid wire in commercial caps. I have read that article about the failure of the IED that Ted K made and tried to use. Apparently an EOD investigator concluded that had he used solid wire the IED would have detonated. So, solid wire appears critical doesn't it.

Theories -

Stranded wire - reasons to use:

  1. flexibility?
  2. skin effect allows for faster rise time in detonation pulse?

Solid conductor wire - reasons to use

  1. inflexible, possibly wires assist in physically holding the detonator in place?
  2. inflexible, leg wires are not expected to be bent many times
  3. lack of skin effect not benefit not a problem - likely true with slower caps
  4. lack of skin effect not benefit not a problem - waveform not critical affected for EBW etc..
  5. broken wire can be discovered easier than with stranded before use
  6. less possibility of corrosion buildup as between strands in stranded wire
  7. less possibility of inducing current into stranded wire broken strands from ext RF source
  8. more reliable connection when wires are twisted?

I hope I am not to far off in my theories. Please feel free to comment on my theories and to any specific relevance to an explanation as to why solid wire is chosen in commercial detonators. Any other info is appreciated.

THX, EC

Reply to
chemstu
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Stranded is flexible ( very important where needed ). Solid is probably cheaper to make but'll fracture if flexed repeatedly ( hence not used for patch cords ).

Skin effect doesn't apply to stranded cable per the individual conductor size as the strands aren't insulated from each other.

I suspect in your case maybe solid wire is simply easier to twist / splice onto the detonation cable.

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

There are no "technical" reasons why solid conductor is used in preference to stranded conductors on electric detonators.

I think you will find that it is all to do with convenience. Back in the 1950's when I first used electric detonators they had solid conductors and in those days they were insulated with waxed cotton and not pvc. Wire stripping tools were not all that common even in the telecommunications industry where solid wire was insulated with enamel and waxed cotton was used, and it would have been fairly difficult to keep any stripping tool in a serviceable condition in wet and dirty conditions, so it was easier if no tool was required. When the shot firer in the field had grimy hands and there was crap everywhere, the easiest way to bare the end of the wire for joining to the firing cable was to use your teeth. Not so easy with stranded conductors. Apart from being cheaper to produce it was also far easier to perform a simple twist joint with solid conductors than with stranded conductors.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

Maybe because they spot-weld the tiny ignition link to the lead wires, and it's hard to weld to stranded wire.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

Probably a combination of historical and manufacturing concerns, with solid wire more amenable to the various lineman's splice techniques, cheaper, more suitable for the types of attachment to the heater wire internally- originally a crimp, simpler moisture resistant insulation + wire manufacture- it is important that moisture not wick into the interior of the cap and dampen the primer, and no requirement for fatigue resistance to continual flexing.

I'm not sure that is the case- may have derived from the military practice of using readily available "field telephone wire."

Reply to
Fred Bloggs

Fred Bloggs wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com:

"field telephone wire" is stranded. 3 steel and 4 copper wires (as near as I can recall).

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Reply to
me

The answer is staring you all in the face. Solid wire is cheaper than stranded wire.

Reply to
Reg Edwards

Well, thanks for the ideas everyone, I am sure everyone can see that there are different ideas out there - I posted this question with a couple of other engineering/physics groups - same result.

I am thinking that the idea of the lack of integrity/reliability of the individual strands in stranded wire, which could result in insufficient current carrying ability and might not allow detonators to function properly, seems like a good answer as far as the functioning of the wires. I also see the logic in the other ideas about ease of handling.

However, as you can read on the web, various states i.e. PA, NJ etc. not only require by law that detonators have solid leg wires - but that all wiring in the blast circuit be solid conductor also.

This leads me to again see the logic of the idea the physical integrity of the wiring - which in turn relates to the integrity current capacity - is seen as critical enough to induce both, the manufacturers to assemble detonators with solid wires, and individual states to pass laws requiring that solid wiring be used for detonators and detonator circuits.

PS I am glad for the replies and that a couple of people actually found the question intriguing, I at first thought that no-one would reply.

THX EC

Reply to
chemstu

There are many GOOD reasons NOT to use stranded conductors but these are related to practical methods of ensuring physical integrity which thereby ensures electrical integrity as much as possible.

If stranded conductors were used imagine the problems which could result if a single strand had escaped the joining procedure and was intermittently shorting the detonator leads. This problem cannot occur using solid conductors.

The various states you mention probably include the solid conductor requirement in their law just to prevent cowboys from using stranded conductors for no other reason than "there was nothing stated in the regulations not to do so". Assuming a shorted detonator due to an escaped strand where stranded conductors were used, and someone was injured as a result of a misfire after they went to check on why the detonator didn't work, there would be a legal "out" for a supervisor/employer because the regulations did not specifically outlaw the use of stranded conductors.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

It is WD-1/TT MIL-C-13294 which looks to be superseded by MIL-C-49104 wire. There is a distinction to be made between "stranded" and "flexible" wire- strictly speaking.

Reply to
Fred Bloggs

Instead of guessing , you should post a query to

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and get to the bottom of it. Your question has two parts, one relating to b-cap construction and the other about the requirement for solid conductors on all circuits. I really can't believe that second one, may be a misinterpretation somewhere in reading the regulations. Try citing the exact text.

Reply to
Fred Bloggs

Of all your theories and list of choices, it really boils down to # 8 and slight variations therof. By the way I use a lot of Cat 5 stranded cable, because of its flexibility and oddly, its connection reliability. It is very easy to knick a solid small gage wire in the stripping/termination process and therby assure yourself of a break failure sometime in the future. Fixing broken wires that you yourself caused rates a dope slap every time!!

Sometimes we can also overthink ourselves. ;-)

Reply to
gstringe

Are you sure they're not talking about "solid" conductor versus "wireless" detonation circuits?

Reply to
Fred Bloggs

Yes, but learning to strip wire without damaging it is kind of satisfying.

Good Luck! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

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