Who sells this stuff (without paying for miles at a time)?
I'm especially interested in stupid thick stuff, like, as large as 8AWG equivalent. Nebraska Surplus for instance doesn't stock wire like this.
Tim
-- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
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We get Litz wire from MWS but nothing that big. If you don't need that much have you thought of 'rolling your own'?
George H.
I do sometimes, but only for small things. I'm contemplating 10A at 1MHz, so it needs to be pretty fine = way more strands than I'd want to deal with.
I actually have some copper rope, which is about 1/4" diameter and looks to be made of 28AWG or so. I don't remember how many strands it is, but if I guess the rope is wound from 7 strands of 31 strand twist, that's 7*31 =
217. If 28AWG is good for ~200mA, 217 strands should be good for 40A, which sounds about right, I'd call it 8 or 10AWG equivalent. I salvaged this stuff from some old motor driver, which used a spool of this stuff for air-core inductors.Tim
-- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Isn't there some magic braiding pattern for Litz wire?
-- www.wescottdesign.com
I don't know what their minimum order is, but
-- David dgminala at mediacombb dot net
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I doubt you would find such a heavy gauge. The litz wire I have used I recovered from IF transformers in old radios. I have never found a commercial seller and doubt whether anyone would still make it
jcdrisc
I've seen power inductors wound from a bundle of smaller-gage enameled wires just bunched together in parallel and gang soldered on the ends, but not woven like proper Litz. That apparently cuts eddy currents a bunch. MWS sells this style too, a bunch strands of smallish wire loosely twisted together, with thermal-strip insulation.
John
Well, I've got the rope stuff I mentioned earlier, and I've taken apart Sony transformers (which were wax impregnated, not varnished!) which used litz. Just a twisted bundle, not properly woven, but I'm not that picky.
Tim
-- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
I did a web search last week for some for a power converter transformer. 600+ strands of AWG 46 wire for something like $1/foot in small quantities. You could braid about five of those together.. (I'm sure you can find it as easily as I can).
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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The copper rope is not long enough? We've got some discard litz wire, but not nearly that thin or as many strands. We use it to make high Q coils to detect the nuclear magnetic moments of protons spinning in the Earth's B field. Frequencies a bit above 2kHz. And lots smaller currents. Well the same coils polarize the spins, but that's 3 amps at DC.
George H.
Pick a gauge, buy the mag wire, and make your own. It is not that hard at all. Properly braiding out a custom length of Litz wire is no harder that winding your own custom pot core transformer bobbin. One just has to set one's mind to it, and accomplish a simple task without assigning undue difficulty to it without even trying.
Can't be any harder than macrame. You can actually come up with better stuff than you can even buy too.
The stuff you refer to sounds like it would not be a cheap per foot price, even if you were buying a whole spool. Probably better to fashion a double long length, then cut it in half when you are ready to use it.
What is the application , and the length of the run? Or is it needing to be long enough to be a primary winding?
The problem is that it not being constructed from individual mag wires, it is "seen" as a single strand to the current flow, and having only ONE skin. The litz configuration requires the wire be discreet from each other with the exception of the termination points.
/ /I doubt you would find such a heavy gauge. /The litz wire I have used I recovered from IF transformers in old /radios. /I have never found a commercial seller and doubt whether anyone would /still make it / /jcdrisc
I used some on a project a few years ago, it was used to induction heat studs that were inserted into plastic automotive light housings. It was heavy stuff, the induction heater only took a couple of seconds to heat the studs hot enough to melt into the plastic. I don't remember where we got it from though, found it by a google search if I remember correctly.
RogerN
No. The wire strands have to be mag wire, which segregates them from each other, allowing the skin effect to be taken advantage of. Without strand segregation, it becomes a single strand, from the POV of the current flowing in it, with only one skin for the entire mass.
One can take multiple pieces of a smaller litz, and increase the effective gauge. No need to unwrap the individual segments.
See the beast of a transformer in this thing?
That's 20 turns, and each turn is maybe 8" long, or 160" = 13.3' total. If it's actually 231 strand as I speculated earlier, that's 3kft, more than half a mile of 28AWG.
Now, if I build more of these, I don't need quite this many strands since it's only running at 20kHz. But the 1MHz thing I mentioned elsewhere needs wire at least this fine.
Tim
-- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website:
"life imitates life" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
The definition of Litz relies on the fact that the strands are electrically segregated from each other between their terminus points.
It does NOT HAVE to be specially braided or woven. The thermal strip wrapped stuff DOES qualify as litz, depending on length and intended application, and I have bought the MWS product before.
The proof? I made several of my own Litz configuration primaries for transformers and the proof is in the pudding of the observed performance characteristics, even at lower frequency switcher supply cycle rates. The fact is that it definitely works to segregate several strands of conductor on short runs of AC pathways or in inductors and chokes and transformer windings. Trial and error with gauges and strand count do more to optimize the result than ANY specialized, presumed to be required braiding or weaving. The segregation is the key to increasing surface area within a given cumulative "gauge".
STOP top posting.
If it is non-segregated "rope" as you call it, it is no different than welding cable and is merely being used as a flexible, high current link to the winding or as the winding media itself, but there will be NO "Litz function" if the individual strands are not isolated from each other electrically along the length of the conductor.
All the strands of Litz type wire co-conduct *apart* from each other, EXCEPT at the ends where they are ALL terminated at the same node.
Other wise there is no litz configuration and there will be no litz effect or function taking place. The "rope" or cable as it is properly called, will have a single "skin effect realm" that surrounds the entire bundle and NONE of the inner wires will carry any current in high freq rf conduction. With segregated wires, each has their own skin and the total amount of conducting copper in an rf conduction setting is an order of magnitude greater. Of course strand gauge has an effect on that and the improvement will be less with larger strands, but they ALL MUST conduct separate from each other except at their common endpoint nodes, or there is no effect.
I see you don't view links. The wire is clearly individually insulated, which is what everyone else in this thread understands by "litz", except yourself, as you have stated six times over. It's a good thing you're in everyone's killfile.
Tim
-- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website:
"life imitates life" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
231 strands of #28 would be bigger in diameter than that wire appears to be. Even 231 strands of #38 or #43 would be pretty big. No way that those are #28 strands, or if they are, there are not 231 of them.
Use some common sense. 231 strands of #28 single strength mag wire has a bundle diameter of nearly 3/8"!
Your #12 ga arrival math is off too.
D=Diameter of a bundle of wires d=diameter of a single strand in the bundle N=Total number of wires.
D= 1.55 x d x (Sq rt of N)
The #12 is about 0.083" in diameter without a wrap. The 242 strands of #36 you stated is 0.0056" in diameter, which is for single strength mag wire, and comes out to 0.135"
So, the lesson is DO NOT forget the insulation.
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