OT: nuclear fusion might not be quite as far off in the future as we've thought.

opens with a tolerably interesting article

g earlier.

lei, who seems to think that he's even closer to a practical solution, but there are venture capitalists in the mix.

Once again you're completely clueless and gullible. Fusion is unobtainable because of political interference. This crap with funding government and ac ademic labs to make a show of research into it is a deceitful ruse. The kin d of useless swine who work in those places never get anything to work, the y're non-performers. The research has to be moved into a sector hungry for making enormous profit, and that's what's happening now.

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Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred
Loading thread data ...

ide.

search got under way?

the problems that stopped it from working. Since it's a process of explora tion, rather than trip down a well-charted path, the only people who make c onfident predictions about how long it's going to take to get to the destin ation are those who don't know what they are talking about.

get there.

Why wait? Andrea Rossi has a working reactor now, he's got a plant in FL to build them, he's going to make a lot of money. He's convinced some real scientists that it all works. I suggest you invest! Buy the rights for Australia, you'll be rich!

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ECAT technology is based on LENR which is far superior in comparison to all existing energy sources:

Superior Energy Density: LENR has an energy density that is a factor 10

0,000-10,000,000 times greater than today?s combustion processes (O il, Coal, Natural Gas) and reportedly higher than today?s commercia l fission. Green and Safe: LENR is 100% green and carbon-free. LENR is a nuclear r eaction, however, it does not require uranium/plutonium, has no nuclear byp roducts, and has no harmful effects or safety issues like fission energy. Limitless: The current fuel for LENR, nickel + hydrogen, is nearly limi tless, the most abundant metal and the most abundant gas on earth. No combu stion process takes place, instead, the hydrogen is merged with nickel, whi ch is transmuted to form copper + energy. LENR also appears possible using metals other than Nickel such as Palladium for instance. Cheap, Small and Scalable: The forthcoming LENR devices are all very co st efficient. They are small, easy to manufacture/operate, highly efficient and reliable, with no moving parts and requiring only the replacement of a LENR fuel cartridge every 6 months or so.
Reply to
Whoey Louie

s some Dutch professor who thought that digging up and crushing a few milli on tons of dolomite rock and spreading it on beaches would be the cheapest way of doing that. That would just speed up the normal weathering mechanism which soaks up excess CO2 from the atmosphere.

es. While dolomite can be beneficial as a pH buffer, if the pH value is co uld be impacted too much by such large quantities.

oluble in water.

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sh surfaces to CO2.

lomite would would help that, but only by locking up some CO2 as insoluble compounds.

I can't seem to find any info on CO2 absorption by dolomite other than by p yrolysis of the CaMg(CO3)2 into CaO and MgO which none of the papers talk a bout the resulting release of CO2. From what you posted it appears the dol omite is simply crushed and not heat treated. Can you explain how that abs orbs CO2? I can't find it.

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

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research got under way?

ll the problems that stopped it from working. Since it's a process of explo ration, rather than trip down a well-charted path, the only people who make confident predictions about how long it's going to take to get to the dest ination are those who don't know what they are talking about.

r get there.

L

ll existing energy sources:

100,000-10,000,000 times greater than today?s combustion processes (Oil, Coal, Natural Gas) and reportedly higher than today?s commerc ial fission.

reaction, however, it does not require uranium/plutonium, has no nuclear b yproducts, and has no harmful effects or safety issues like fission energy.

mitless, the most abundant metal and the most abundant gas on earth. No com bustion process takes place, instead, the hydrogen is merged with nickel, w hich is transmuted to form copper + energy. LENR also appears possible usin g metals other than Nickel such as Palladium for instance.

cost efficient. They are small, easy to manufacture/operate, highly efficie nt and reliable, with no moving parts and requiring only the replacement of a LENR fuel cartridge every 6 months or so.

Andrea Rossi's LENR based ECAT is a great invention... er, scam. Too bad.

I watched a recent video where he demoed a small box producing power to hea t water. All he needed to do was to measure the temperature and volume of the water and compare that to the power being input. His methods of measur ing and calculating these powers were very overly complex and obviously fla wed in a way to produce an absurdly high COP. In other words, a scam. No, a total scam.

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It would be so easy to confirm that his unit works, but like all con artist s he won't allow examination of the device except in specific ways he allow s which won't give you the proper information.

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

e:

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e research got under way?

all the problems that stopped it from working. Since it's a process of exp loration, rather than trip down a well-charted path, the only people who ma ke confident predictions about how long it's going to take to get to the de stination are those who don't know what they are talking about.

ver get there.

FL

all existing energy sources:

r 100,000-10,000,000 times greater than today?s combustion processe s (Oil, Coal, Natural Gas) and reportedly higher than today?s comme rcial fission.

ar reaction, however, it does not require uranium/plutonium, has no nuclear byproducts, and has no harmful effects or safety issues like fission energ y.

limitless, the most abundant metal and the most abundant gas on earth. No c ombustion process takes place, instead, the hydrogen is merged with nickel, which is transmuted to form copper + energy. LENR also appears possible us ing metals other than Nickel such as Palladium for instance.

y cost efficient. They are small, easy to manufacture/operate, highly effic ient and reliable, with no moving parts and requiring only the replacement of a LENR fuel cartridge every 6 months or so.

.

eat water. All he needed to do was to measure the temperature and volume o f the water and compare that to the power being input. His methods of meas uring and calculating these powers were very overly complex and obviously f lawed in a way to produce an absurdly high COP. In other words, a scam. N o, a total scam.

sts he won't allow examination of the device except in specific ways he all ows which won't give you the proper information.

Oh damn, you ruined it. I wanted Bill to invest.

Reply to
Whoey Louie

Flat displays were also always 10 years in the future, until one day they weren't.

I d>Today's issue of the Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences opens with a tolerably interesting article

Reply to
LM

LM wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Top posting is lame in Usenet.

Sony Trinitron held the top spot for a very long time, and were the first with vertically flat displays, then panel displays came into being with the advent of plasma and LCD technology.

I had a Toshiba CRT that was HDTV and was like 37 inches of huge, thick, flat (externally) front glass. It had a very slight curve

*inside* where the beam struck the mask. I am sure that relativistic beam acelleration on huge flat displays was a pure PITA for the engineers.

Now we have come fool circle with slightly horizontally concave displays.

Next thing we'll be wearing double bubble shaped goggles that give each eye a 100% 3D surface to view the imagery on.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

es opens with a tolerably interesting article

ing earlier.

uclei, who seems to think that he's even closer to a practical solution, bu t there are venture capitalists in the mix.

e because of political interference. This crap with funding government and academic labs to make a show of research into it is a deceitful ruse. The k ind of useless swine who work in those places never get anything to work, t hey're non-performers. The research has to be moved into a sector hungry fo r making enormous profit, and that's what's happening now.

I'm not clueless and gullible enough to think that fusion energy is unobtai nable because of political interference. It's not unobtainable at all - the sun is working fusion reactor - and we've got at least one working fusion reactor that generates appreciable fusion energy, though not as much as the energy needed to keep it running.

Getting enough gas hot enough for long enough to get appreciable nuclear fu sion - the Lawson criterion, which has been around since 1955

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is demanding. It has taken quite a while to get close. ITER represents a re latively cautious approach to the problem. There are others as spelled out in the PNAS article I cited when I started this thread.

Wittering on about political interference and the natural superiority of th e free market approach, as the Forbes article does, is a standard ploy for people looking to suck in private investment

Falling for it makes you completely clueless and gullible.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

:

was some Dutch professor who thought that digging up and crushing a few mil lion tons of dolomite rock and spreading it on beaches would be the cheapes t way of doing that. That would just speed up the normal weathering mechani sm which soaks up excess CO2 from the atmosphere.

nces. While dolomite can be beneficial as a pH buffer, if the pH value is could be impacted too much by such large quantities.

nsoluble in water.

resh surfaces to CO2.

dolomite would would help that, but only by locking up some CO2 as insolubl e compounds.

pyrolysis of the CaMg(CO3)2 into CaO and MgO which none of the papers talk about the resulting release of CO2. From what you posted it appears the d olomite is simply crushed and not heat treated. Can you explain how that a bsorbs CO2? I can't find it.

Oops. I got the rock wrong. It wasn't dolomite but olivine,

The January 2020 Physics Today - which I happened to get late last night h as seven pages - page 44 to page 51 - on "Negative Carbon Dioxide Emissions " mentions this approach with quotes from a Columbia University geochemist, Peter Kelemen.

I should have done more googling before I posted what I thought that I reme mbered.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

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the research got under way?

ed all the problems that stopped it from working. Since it's a process of e xploration, rather than trip down a well-charted path, the only people who make confident predictions about how long it's going to take to get to the destination are those who don't know what they are talking about.

never get there.

in FL

to all existing energy sources:

tor 100,000-10,000,000 times greater than today?s combustion proces ses (Oil, Coal, Natural Gas) and reportedly higher than today?s com mercial fission.

lear reaction, however, it does not require uranium/plutonium, has no nucle ar byproducts, and has no harmful effects or safety issues like fission ene rgy.

y limitless, the most abundant metal and the most abundant gas on earth. No combustion process takes place, instead, the hydrogen is merged with nicke l, which is transmuted to form copper + energy. LENR also appears possible using metals other than Nickel such as Palladium for instance.

ery cost efficient. They are small, easy to manufacture/operate, highly eff icient and reliable, with no moving parts and requiring only the replacemen t of a LENR fuel cartridge every 6 months or so.

ad.

heat water. All he needed to do was to measure the temperature and volume of the water and compare that to the power being input. His methods of me asuring and calculating these powers were very overly complex and obviously flawed in a way to produce an absurdly high COP. In other words, a scam. No, a total scam.

tists he won't allow examination of the device except in specific ways he a llows which won't give you the proper information.

Fat chance of that. I've actually met and chatted to Prof Heinrich Hora.

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He's got a much more plausible approach to sell, and a much more impressive reputation to sell it with. There are venture capitalists putting money in to make it happen, but I doubt if I've got enough money to be a potential backer - it's not as if anybody has approached me.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

te:

e was some Dutch professor who thought that digging up and crushing a few m illion tons of dolomite rock and spreading it on beaches would be the cheap est way of doing that. That would just speed up the normal weathering mecha nism which soaks up excess CO2 from the atmosphere.

uences. While dolomite can be beneficial as a pH buffer, if the pH value i s could be impacted too much by such large quantities.

insoluble in water.

fresh surfaces to CO2.

d dolomite would would help that, but only by locking up some CO2 as insolu ble compounds.

by pyrolysis of the CaMg(CO3)2 into CaO and MgO which none of the papers ta lk about the resulting release of CO2. From what you posted it appears the dolomite is simply crushed and not heat treated. Can you explain how that absorbs CO2? I can't find it.

has seven pages - page 44 to page 51 - on "Negative Carbon Dioxide Emissio ns" mentions this approach with quotes from a Columbia University geochemis t, Peter Kelemen.

membered.

That's ok, none of us are perfect. So my concern is valid. At least as of 2017 when this quote was published in a paper.

Enhanced weathering of (ultra)basic silicate rocks such as olivine-rich dun ite has been proposed as a large-scale climate engineering approach. When i mplemented in coastal environments, olivine weathering is expected to incre ase seawater alkalinity, thus resulting in additional CO2 uptake from the a tmosphere. However, the mechanisms of marine olivine weathering and its eff ect on seawater?carbonate chemistry remain poorly understood. Here, we present results from batch reaction experiments, in which forsteritic o livine was subjected to rotational agitation in different seawater media fo r periods of days to months. Olivine dissolution caused a significant incre ase in alkalinity of the seawater with a consequent DIC increase due to CO2 invasion, thus confirming viability of the basic concept of enhanced silic ate weathering. However, our experiments also identified several important challenges with respect to the detailed quantification of the CO2 sequestra tion efficiency under field conditions, which include nonstoichiometric dis solution, potential pore water saturation in the seabed, and the potential occurrence of secondary reactions. Before enhanced weathering of olivine in coastal environments can be considered an option for realizing negative CO

2 emissions for climate mitigation purposes, these aspects need further exp erimental assessment.

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So they don't really have a full understanding of the currently unintended consequences of using olivine to foster CO2 absorption. In other words it' s premature to think we have a solution. More work ahead. Maybe we can ge t Andrea Rossi to work on it, now that the LENR thing is pretty well worke d out and all the energy we want is available.

--

  Rick C. 

  --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging 
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Reply to
Rick C

rote:

ere was some Dutch professor who thought that digging up and crushing a few million tons of dolomite rock and spreading it on beaches would be the che apest way of doing that. That would just speed up the normal weathering mec hanism which soaks up excess CO2 from the atmosphere.

equences. While dolomite can be beneficial as a pH buffer, if the pH value is could be impacted too much by such large quantities.

re insoluble in water.

se fresh surfaces to CO2.

and dolomite would would help that, but only by locking up some CO2 as inso luble compounds.

n by pyrolysis of the CaMg(CO3)2 into CaO and MgO which none of the papers talk about the resulting release of CO2. From what you posted it appears t he dolomite is simply crushed and not heat treated. Can you explain how th at absorbs CO2? I can't find it.

ht has seven pages - page 44 to page 51 - on "Negative Carbon Dioxide Emiss ions" mentions this approach with quotes from a Columbia University geochem ist, Peter Kelemen.

remembered.

of 2017 when this quote was published in a paper.

unite has been proposed as a large-scale climate engineering approach. When implemented in coastal environments, olivine weathering is expected to inc rease seawater alkalinity, thus resulting in additional CO2 uptake from the atmosphere. However, the mechanisms of marine olivine weathering and its e ffect on seawater?carbonate chemistry remain poorly understood. Her e, we present results from batch reaction experiments, in which forsteritic olivine was subjected to rotational agitation in different seawater media for periods of days to months. Olivine dissolution caused a significant inc rease in alkalinity of the seawater with a consequent DIC increase due to C O2 invasion, thus confirming viability of the basic concept of enhanced sil icate weathering. However, our experiments also identified several importan t challenges with respect to the detailed quantification of the CO2 sequest ration efficiency under field conditions, which include nonstoichiometric d issolution, potential pore water saturation in the seabed, and the potentia l occurrence of secondary reactions. Before enhanced weathering of olivine in coastal environments can be considered an option for realizing negative CO2 emissions for climate mitigation purposes, these aspects need further e xperimental assessment.

d consequences of using olivine to foster CO2 absorption. In other words i t's premature to think we have a solution.

It's the solution that nature has been using for the past few billion years .

Getting it to go a bit faster may have minor unexpected side effects, but i t's being going on with some enthusiasm for the past 50 million years since the India continental plate ran into the Eurasian continental plate and st arted pushing up the Himalayan mountains, which have being eroding away eve r since, so the side effects aren't going to be dramatic.

Any academic looking a the process will want to get more money to look at i t in more detail, but that isn't evidence that we shouldn't do it.

the LENR thing is pretty well worked out and all the energy we want is avai lable.

The Australian mining industry would love to have a excuse to dig up loads of olivine, grind it down to a fine dust, extract any saleable minerals and truck the rest off to be dumped on an unused stretch of the Australian coa st. They'd even set up solar farms to power the operation. There's quite a lot of unused Australian coast line, and plenty of room for solar farms nea rby.

Low energy nuclear reactions wouldn't add anything to the business model, e ven if they were actually real, as opposed to money-raising flim-flam.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

I remembered.

s of 2017 when this quote was published in a paper.

dunite has been proposed as a large-scale climate engineering approach. Wh en implemented in coastal environments, olivine weathering is expected to i ncrease seawater alkalinity, thus resulting in additional CO2 uptake from t he atmosphere. However, the mechanisms of marine olivine weathering and its effect on seawater?carbonate chemistry remain poorly understood. H ere, we present results from batch reaction experiments, in which forsterit ic olivine was subjected to rotational agitation in different seawater medi a for periods of days to months. Olivine dissolution caused a significant i ncrease in alkalinity of the seawater with a consequent DIC increase due to CO2 invasion, thus confirming viability of the basic concept of enhanced s ilicate weathering. However, our experiments also identified several import ant challenges with respect to the detailed quantification of the CO2 seque stration efficiency under field conditions, which include nonstoichiometric dissolution, potential pore water saturation in the seabed, and the potent ial occurrence of secondary reactions. Before enhanced weathering of olivin e in coastal environments can be considered an option for realizing negativ e CO2 emissions for climate mitigation purposes, these aspects need further experimental assessment.

ded consequences of using olivine to foster CO2 absorption. In other words it's premature to think we have a solution.

rs.

it's being going on with some enthusiasm for the past 50 million years sin ce the India continental plate ran into the Eurasian continental plate and started pushing up the Himalayan mountains, which have being eroding away e ver since, so the side effects aren't going to be dramatic.

Lol, I love that you trivialize the potential issues. Basically you are sa ying it's a "natural" process so it must be good. lol

it in more detail, but that isn't evidence that we shouldn't do it.

I never said we shouldn't do it. I said we need to not treat this as a sol ution until we have confidence we can do it without mucking up something el se. The material works by raising the pH which allows more CO2 to be absor bed by the ocean. There will be a limit to how much this can be used befor e it has too great an effect on the pH making the waters too alkaline. Tha t can be every bit as bad as too acid.

t the LENR thing is pretty well worked out and all the energy we want is av ailable.

s of olivine, grind it down to a fine dust, extract any saleable minerals a nd truck the rest off to be dumped on an unused stretch of the Australian c oast. They'd even set up solar farms to power the operation. There's quite a lot of unused Australian coast line, and plenty of room for solar farms n earby.

The problem with coastline is it's one dimensional while the problem area i s two dimensional. The paper mentioned problems trying to use this solutio n in deep water. So we will see just how limited this is as a solution.

even if they were actually real, as opposed to money-raising flim-flam.

That was the point. I was just taking a jab at Rossi, the silly goose.

--

  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C
[about minerals that absorb CO2}

Sounds hard. Why not drill down, and pump the CO2 into a suitable substratum? There have been some trials...

Shipping the heavy bits versus letting the wind bring the gas to your site: I know which transport bill I'd rather see in my mailbox.

Reply to
whit3rd

Yup, too true.

It is also refreshing when somebody explicitly acknowledges having made a mistake.

It encourages me to give them (Bill S in this case) the benefit of (my) doubt when they make other statements.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Dig up carbon. React with atmospheric oxygen to produce energy. Bury resulting CO2.

So the nett effect is you produce energy by burying Oxygen :-)

--
Cheers 
Clive
Reply to
Clive Arthur

t I remembered.

as of 2017 when this quote was published in a paper.

ch dunite has been proposed as a large-scale climate engineering approach. When implemented in coastal environments, olivine weathering is expected to increase seawater alkalinity, thus resulting in additional CO2 uptake from the atmosphere. However, the mechanisms of marine olivine weathering and i ts effect on seawater?carbonate chemistry remain poorly understood. Here, we present results from batch reaction experiments, in which forster itic olivine was subjected to rotational agitation in different seawater me dia for periods of days to months. Olivine dissolution caused a significant increase in alkalinity of the seawater with a consequent DIC increase due to CO2 invasion, thus confirming viability of the basic concept of enhanced silicate weathering. However, our experiments also identified several impo rtant challenges with respect to the detailed quantification of the CO2 seq uestration efficiency under field conditions, which include nonstoichiometr ic dissolution, potential pore water saturation in the seabed, and the pote ntial occurrence of secondary reactions. Before enhanced weathering of oliv ine in coastal environments can be considered an option for realizing negat ive CO2 emissions for climate mitigation purposes, these aspects need furth er experimental assessment.

ended consequences of using olivine to foster CO2 absorption. In other wor ds it's premature to think we have a solution.

ears.

ut it's being going on with some enthusiasm for the past 50 million years s ince the India continental plate ran into the Eurasian continental plate an d started pushing up the Himalayan mountains, which have being eroding away ever since, so the side effects aren't going to be dramatic.

saying it's a "natural" process so it must be good. lol

Not exactly. What I do say is that there is quite a bit of it going on alre ady, so the issues you seem to want to imagine should already be visible.

"Natural" doesn't come into it.

at it in more detail, but that isn't evidence that we shouldn't do it.

olution until we have confidence we can do it without mucking up something else. The material works by raising the pH which allows more CO2 to be abs orbed by the ocean.

It doesn't. Olivines are silicates, and they absorb CO2 by turning into car bonates. The silicon oxide that gets displaced ends up as silica sand.

Water helps the process, but it's pH is pretty much irrelevant, and there's no net displacement of hydrogen ions. Do try to find out what you are talk ing about before you argue with me about chemistry - I do know a bit about that subject. even if I'm weak enough on geology to confuse olivine and dol omite (at least until I think about it).

at an effect on the pH making the waters too alkaline. That can be every b it as bad as too acid.

Twaddle.

hat the LENR thing is pretty well worked out and all the energy we want is available.

ads of olivine, grind it down to a fine dust, extract any saleable minerals and truck the rest off to be dumped on an unused stretch of the Australian coast. They'd even set up solar farms to power the operation. There's quit e a lot of unused Australian coast line, and plenty of room for solar farms nearby.

is two dimensional. The paper mentioned problems trying to use this solut ion in deep water. So we will see just how limited this is as a solution.

Only if we try it.

l, even if they were actually real, as opposed to money-raising flim-flam.

He's collecting money, which makes him a dangerous goose.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

That's exactly what we are doing at the moment. There a lot more oxygen gas in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide, but every last atom of fossil carbo n that we burn as fuel takes one molecule of oxygen out of the atmosphere, so there's detectably less oxygen in the atmosphere than there was when we started measuring the oxygen content accurately enough to let us notice.

Buying CO2 is safer that leaving it in the atmosphere to act as greenhouse gas, but wherever you put it the oxygen tied up in it isn't around for us t o breath.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
Bill Sloman

How do you get just the CO2 to go into the hole and not the oxygen and nitrogen?

I believe that is the point, separating the CO2 from the air. That's the harder bit of the job.

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

So then one day when the O2 levels are becoming too low to sustain life we dig up the sequestered oxygen and use solar power to release the O2 from the CO2 producing crystalline C? Sweet! We can print integrated circuits on it.

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  Rick C. 

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Reply to
Rick C

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