OT: "Minmum" wage crap

Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Why is that exactly? Why should service in the military be required for a political office? Should we also require that they have taught in a public school or have been in the civil service?

Or are you trying to insult the military by suggesting that is the place where one should go in order to learn to become a politician?

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Rick

Maybe you don't have enough good restaurants where you are. Here we hardly have any restaurants but there are a couple of good ones which seem to do a good business without being over crowded.

I think most hotels are getting business customers more than the general public. Certainly the airlines get a lot of business customers and they have to stay somewhere.

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Rick

Agreed - but supposedly, tipping is highly discriminatory and should be avoided for that reason.

The authors of the Freakonomics books and podcasts have an interesting take on the subject:

Why? So service disintegrates? No thanks. I'll continue to pay for performance.

Yawn.

But you're not really paying for performance. That's the whole point.

Listen if/when you can. Or not.

Enjoy. I don't.

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Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to 
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

You are really unintelligent. There is no way you can know if I am paying for performance or not.

Dan

g for performance or not.

Let me ask you this, Dan: How to YOU even know if you are paying for a performance or not?

Are you now going to suggest that you are clairvoyant too? That you KNOW your tip is actually going to your particular restaurant serv er, and not simply pooled to be shared equally by all servers working that shift?

...maybe that pool includes the dishwasher too. Maybe the restaurant owner takes a cut - and wouldn't you EXPECT the proprietor (as opposed to staff) to deliver excellent service WITHOUT THE REQUIREMENT to tip? Isn't that p art of being in business - setting your prices according to expected servic e levels?

Do you tip EVERYONE who had a hand in your overall restaurant experience, o r ONLY the server who delivered your meal to the table and attended to your needs? Isn't that discriminatory in itself (i.e., a selection)?

I could go on, and on. But I think the point is clear enough. Hopefully you've learned a lesson here not to criticize and insult before y ou've thought things through properly.

When mentioning 'Propreitor" above, I should have clarified that I was considering the case where your server is actually the restuarant owner. This happens frequenly in smaller establishments.

ing for performance or not.

rver, and not simply pooled to be shared equally by all servers working tha t shift?

er takes a cut - and wouldn't you EXPECT the proprietor (as opposed to staf f) to deliver excellent service WITHOUT THE REQUIREMENT to tip? Isn't that part of being in business - setting your prices according to expected serv ice levels?

or ONLY the server who delivered your meal to the table and attended to yo ur needs? Isn't that discriminatory in itself (i.e., a selection)?

you've thought things through properly.

You still are not using any logic.

It does not matter who the tip gets distributed to, What counts is did t ip based on what I consider to be the level of service. If the tip gets po oled, so be it. But the decision on how much or how little is still based on performance. Does not matter if the dish washer gets a share. Does not matter if I tip everyone that had something to do with the meal.

What counts is whether there is a correlation between what I consider perfo rmance and the size of the tip.

So I hope you learned a lesson about thinking before making broad statement s, but somehow I doubt if you learned anything.

Dan

Wish THAT were true. TIP, to insure promptness, has become so embedded that it is now assumed to be part of service employee's pay. Even the wages bandied about for hiring include the tips. It is my understanding that the IRS 'assumes' the service employee gets 15% of sales on top their hourly wages, and taxes them on that basis.

Den tirsdag den 14. oktober 2014 17.09.01 UTC+2 skrev Robert Macy:

yeh, it is just an excuse to write a smaller price on the menu

-Lasse

formance and the size of the tip.

nts, but somehow I doubt if you learned anything.

Well, you're just plain mistaken and possibly blinded by your own biases. Rather than call you an asshole for now having attempted to insult me twice with your caustic lauguage, I shall instead endeavor to educate you with s ome research on tipping practices. Afterall, you can usually fix ignorance via a little education, stupidity on the other hand...

To save you some time, I again refer you to the link:

ics-radio-podcast/ Fast forward to about 14:30 and take a good listen for about a minute.

That's right: There is an average correlation of about .2 between the size of the tip and the perceived level of service. In other words, about 4% o f the variability in the differences in the amount of tips can be explained by customers' perception of the service level. The characterization of th at finding is described as an 'astonishing low' correlation.

Now, this finding is presented by Professor Michael Lynn at Cornell Univers ity's School of Hotel Administration. I'm sure you'll disagree (with both Lynn and myself), and that's OK. But doing so does not change the underlyi ng research.

So, myopically, I guess you could argue that the correlation between what Y OU think is good service and the size of YOUR tip matters. 4% apparently. But on balance it does not matter.

I suggest you, and probably the servers, are all programmed to think that i t matters, and that's why you engage in the practice, subject to all the bi ases and discriminatory practices attached thereto.

I wonder if tipping isn't more about giving the customer a sense of control over the situation. If they have an opportunity to provide feedback through the tip I expect that makes them feel as if they have a means of changing the situation the next time they visit.

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Rick

Agreed. I can think of no stronger evidence for your position than the statement you often see printed on the bottom of some restaurant menus:

'An 18% gratuity will be added to parties of six or more.'

No correlation to service level there!! Tipping is basically a subsidy for the restaurant's labor costs. (USA)

In Europe (I think it was in rural France?), they actually look at you funny if you leave a tip. A tip is not expected or encouraged, and if you leave a few Euros behind, they think you are crazy for just throwing money away.

Bullshit.

To absolute bullshit? Why?

They certainly do not. It's more like 8% (or often less), unless the receipts show more. I generally pay cash and almost always tip in cash.

We do, or wouldn't (actually, three times this last weekend and more the week before - vacation at the beach in FL). As I said earlier, whatever floats your boat.

ce with your caustic lauguage, I shall instead endeavor to educate you with some research on tipping practices. Afterall, you can usually fix ignoran ce via a little education, stupidity on the other hand...

Wrong again. The orginal statement by you was" But you're not really payin g for performance. That's the whole point. " And I said there was no way you could tell if I was paying for performance. So it has nothing to do with general tipping p ractice. It is whether you can know what MY tipping practice is.

YOU think is good service and the size of YOUR tip matters. 4% apparently . But on balance it does not matter.

My only complaint was that you do not know what I do. You can generalize about what the general public does. But you still do not know what I do.

it matters, and that's why you engage in the practice, subject to all the biases and discriminatory practices attached thereto.

One more time, you do not know what I do or if I engage in tipping. Even if I say what I do, you have no way of knowing if I am telling the truth or l ying. If you do have a way of knowing, please inform the group of the method.

Dan