OT: Cultural "attitudes" in, e.g., France

Do you think it should have been fettered?

But aren't all religions about power/control in some form or another? I.e., how do they differ from governments -- except they don't follow national borders?

Are there ANY that espouse "individual belief" (for want of a better word) *without* some central "coordination", group activities, etc.? I.e., so you would never *know* who other "practitioners" are because there is no need to know/control them to further your "faith"?

The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Samaritans, etc.) seem to attract the "my way or the highway" sort of thinking.

Buddhism, like the Pirate's Code*, is more just a set of guidelines.

There are any number of individual members of the Abrahamic religions who feel that it's their job to observe their religion, but not to force those around them to observe the forms. They're generally hard to notice because they're not the ones cutting off heads or blowing up schools or refusing to rent rooms to gay people or passing laws that force women to stay pregnant even if it kills them, etc.

My personal opinion is that if you're a nice person you'll use your view of the universe to justify and feel good about being a nice person. If you're an asshole you'll find a way to describe the universe that lets you be an asshole while thinking that you're sitting at God's right hand (or that anyone who believes in God is an idiot, if you happen to be an atheist asshole). So you can't tell if someone's good because they belong to a particular tradition -- you can only tell what buzz-words they'll use while justifying their behavior.

• See "Pirates of the Caribbean"

They don't have to. This is just how they're interpreted for the benefit of those who practice it. Islam probably has the most text supporting "my way or the highway" but at varying times, it's been used or not used.

The Koran includes text that was developed during a conquest. Christianity doesn't*; Judaism does but it's unusual for the Torah to be interpreted in this way. It does happen; especially in the settlements.

The Koran is also a "one size fits all", instant civilization kit - there is Sharia Law and it's commanded in the Book.

Indeed.

Certain anthropologists think that Christianity may have - may have - made humanity less bloody over the thousands of years it's been popular. It's a fairly wild, and SFAIK, completely non-empirical hypothesis. See also Rene Girard.

But the one truly universal religious principle is - do unto others as you would have others do unto you. It's in all of 'em.

Quakers don't seem to be.

Religions do differ from governments in that governments are about what you do, and religions are about what you believe. Religions can be particularl y censorious if what you've done is inconsistent with what you've professed to believe, and governments can insist that you act in a way that's consis tent with a particular belief so it's a fairly fuzzy distinction.

Congregationalists - my paternal grandfather was an active member of his co ngregation - got their name by letting individual congregations make up the ir minds about their preferred order of service. This isn't exactly individ ual belief, but it does leave individuals free to make local compromises wi th others in the vicinity who more or less share their beliefs.

Evidently.

I don't think Jesus ever recommended killing anyone. The Old Testamant and the Koran certainly do.

certainly sounds like a death penalty recommendation for child molesters of every kind - in which I'd include practitioners of infant baptism and circumcision ...

Exactly. I.e., it should stay "between your ears" and go nowhere else!

Is that a statement of *fact*? Or, your own belief as to what *should* be a universal truth?

It's properly, "Do unto others before they do unto you" >:-} ...Jim Thompson

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Buddhist comes to mind - most variants have very little central control, and it is the development of the "self" that is key.

In early Christianity there was a strong movement for individual belief, known as the gnostics, who were looking for the "divine" inside everyone, rather than an external god. But the Catholic church was formed by the Roman emperor precisely with the aim of centralisation and control, and it burned out the gnostic tradition.

I'd always thought that the jews didn't give a toss about other religions as long as they're not being persecuted - they don't seem to proselytize and are happy to be the chosen people.

That's my observation based on a limited sample.

Cheers

Most of the main religions have something in them to that effect. Essentially is is documenting a code of good civil behaviour.

Did you ever play Zork in days of yore - the thief liked that phrase?

Regards, Martin Brown

That is exactly correct. One of my daughters-in-law is Jewish (*). When I attended the funeral of her grandfather I was treated very kindly with not a word about my religion or lack thereof.

The Jews always seem to be very family-oriented, which exactly fits my scheme of life. If I were to choose a religion, I'd be a Jew.

Je suis Juif. Je suis en deuil.

(*) Our family includes Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, Jews, and is multi-ethnic as well... so we celebrate ALL holidays... any excuse to get everyone in the family together :-)

(You have to request to be a Jew and attend classes before you can become a Jew. My number 2 son did that.) ...Jim Thompson

Yes. But my question was more specific. Does this principle underly

I once had a neighbor, while drinking _my_ coffee, in _my_ kitchen, talking to my wife, saying, "I can't understand why your children are so well-behaved, since you don't go to church?"

I threw her out of my house >:-}

Bullshit. They're not targeted. With the tinted windows on cars, common in Arizona, you can't tell a Hispanic from a Gringo, period.

(Hispanics in my family.)

Anymore, everyone's a "victim" when they get caught breaking laws. ...Jim Thompson

If you interpret "others" as "everyone else", then I think the only religion that I know of that espouses it clearly is Christianity with "love thy neighbour as thyself". (Though history has shown that few so-called Christians take that rule seriously.)

If you interpret "others" as "other people like me, with the same language, religion and other group identities", then it is more common - I think many religions make a point of telling their members to work together and help each other.

But as an underlying principle of major importance, I think it only applies to (but is seldom applied by) Christianity.

I think you'll find that a similar principle is found in many Buddhist practices... the concept and the ideal of the bodhisattva. The bodhisattva is dedicated to the enlightenment, not just of him/herself, not just other people, but all sentient beings everywhere.

My understanding is that if it's not a fact, it's vanishingly close to being one.