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OT Benjamin Franklin

Ahh, good old Ben,

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

Full text of The Encouragement of Idleness

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Mike Mike

Reply to
Mike
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The simplest way is to make sure the economy provides enough decent paying jobs for everyone.

--
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Reply to
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Yep, just get government rules and regulations out of the way and the economy will thrive. Mike

Reply to
Mike

21 years later, in the middle of the constitutional convention in Philidelphia, Benjamin Franklin gave a speech on the floor on August 10th of 1787. Part of which was:

"I dislike everything that tends to debase the spirit of the common people. If honesty is often the companion of wealth, and if poverty is exposed to peculiar temptation, the possession of property increases the desire for more. Some of the greatest rogues I was ever acquainted with were the richest rogues. Remember, the scripture requires in rulers that they should be men hating covetousness. If this constitution should betray a great partiality to the rich, it will not only hurt us in the esteem of the most liberal and enlightened men in Europe, but discourage the common people from removing to this country."

The context there was the question of whether or not wealth should be required for "membership" in the legislature or presidency.

Make what you will from these tiny snippets from one man at different times.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

Anarchy is no solution.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

Conversely, government rules and dumb ideas like thinking that taxing the rich will produce jobs only causes companies to move overseas, and net more job losses. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

No one said anything about anarchy.

Reply to
krw

Yes, someone did. Taken to its limit, the removal of government rules and regulations is exactly that.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

He didn't say to remove *all* rules, which would be anarchy. Remove some (or these days, *most*) rules, and you'll have a lean, efficient government. Your logical fallacy is looking all the way down the slippery slope.

However, the converse of your logic is more scary. Indeed, the slope slides the other way, and we're already on it: more and more legislation is passed, while none of it is removed.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
Reply to
Tim Williams

Bullshit. No one said anything about the government not enforcing contracts or other necessities of doing business.

Reply to
krw

Yes, but without having said more about it that is where one could easily assume the OP was moving towards.

So, now that you've brought this up, where exactly are the lines to be drawn, then?

I think there are problems on both sides. It's finding that right balance that takes the real work. Pure ideology-driven approaches on either side is crazy-minded. The better reality will be continual vigilence, evolution, and hard negotiation the entire way.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

I'm all for anarchy... a full-fledged civil war. Shooting Democrats will be as easy as shooting ducks in a barrel, but more satisfying ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

paying

No said that it would, either. That's your injection here. Mike can speak for himself.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

Sadly, this seems to be the genuine mindset of some here in the US. We may yet have your war if all our politicians can ever seem to do is foment and exaggerate differences instead of finding compromise and ways to leave peacefully amongst each other. If you have your way, I don't imagine it a utopian moment in our history. But with disgusting mindsets like you exhibit from time to time here, we may yet have it.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

I meant "live" -- spell checker fluke here.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

No not anarchy.

A good place to start would be the line that produced the strongest economic and military power in the world in only 150 years. Mike

Reply to
amdx

Excellent to hear.

That's not a description. It's tautological rhetoric. It explains everything and nothing at all.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Kirwan

Obama would call him a traitor...

Reply to
Robert Baer

Jon, that is really an impossible question to answer. The point is there are to many regulations. I don't know where the line should be, I do know the government has a rule, regulation, tax or fine if you want to; catch a fish, shoot a rabbit, put up a fence, cut a tree, fill in a low spot on your property, roof your home, rent a property, drive a car, get a phone, have electricity in your house, start a business, leave snow on the sidewalk in front of your home, park a boat in your driveway, sell fresh garden vegetables, send a letter by UPS, put peanut butter in your childs lunch, get garbage service, sell something overseas, import something from overseas, let your grass grow to long, spank your child, gamble, have a going out of business sale, have a yard sale, have a scale to weigh produce, put a dock in the water from your home, feed a dolphin, buy an OTC decongestant, get a dog/cat, get a gun, put up a large flag, paint your house, produce alcohol, put gasoline in a container, put a sign in your yard, buy a drug and 1000s more. Yes, I agree there was a reason that someone wanted everyone of these enforced, but government regulation is becoming overwhelming and is limiting commerce by making it cost more, thus slowing economic growth. Mike

Reply to
amdx

Hi, krw, Years ago I read an article about how important enforcing contracts is to economic development, I found it very enlightening. Do you have any links to such articles? Mike

Reply to
amdx

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