On Oct 27, 2019, Phil Allison wrote (in article):
does not increase at that rate, so what one gets is the best that can be fit into that budget..
wars, battleships became larger and fewer. During wars, it turned out that a larger number of smaller ships stood up to battle better. The airplane finished the job, because one airplane could sink the largest capital ship.
Now the growth industry is aircraft carriers. Which spawns growth in carrier-killer weapons. It has always been thus.
Joe Gwinn
The border between Finland and Soviet russia was in the armillary range of Leningrad/Petrograd/St, Petersburg in 1917-1939 and was an excuse for the Soviets to start the Winter war in 1839. My father was born close to this border and his family was evacuated just prior to the Russian invasion. Please note, the Red Army never overrun the main part of Finland.
There has never been a communist government in Finland, so why would any site managers be shot.
Some areas in Carelia and Carelia Isthmus (containing some paper mills) was annexed by the Soviet Union in 1940 and again in 1944. I am pretty certain that none of the site managers stayed behind. What happened to those accessing the occupied area from the Soviet side, I have no idea.
In Eastern Carelia, there was a Finish/Carelian population. In addition as a result of the Civil War in Finland in 1918, in which a large number of Reds moved to East Carelia to build a socialist state, also some people first emigrated to America and then returned to East Carelia. Those people suffered badly during Stalin's purges in the
1930'sI do not know of which group the your father's friend belonged.
.That would have been possible during 1930's purges.
You claimed that the forest industry is not energy self sustained.
I used the mechanical pulp (newspaper paper) as an example of non-enenergy sustainable process. The rest is more or less energy efficient.
mandag den 28. oktober 2019 kl. 19.19.42 UTC+1 skrev snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com :
. .have to make the best of what they've got left. My father saw the plaque in one of the paper mills in an invaded but not nicked area, commemorating th e manager and the technical manager who the Russians had shot for the crime of being managers during the invasion.
There are so many Russians, and our country so small, where will we find ro om to bury them all?? -Anonymous Finnish soldier
Why? More jobs to do something is lower productivity.
Hire a million people to dig holes and another million to fill them. Or 10 million, even better.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:42:14 AM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com w rote:
States
tric, 20.8% is wind, and 5.8% solar. The rest is biofuel and biomass.
and
.ing
as
of
a lot more land area per kilowatt hour collected. This isn't.
agant battery back-up.
saper mill. They did burn waste wood on site - mainly bark because the timbe r got turned into chips before it went into the continuous digester to have it's lignin removed (which also eventually got burnt in the soda-recovery process) and emerged as paper pulp.
- the existence of a soda-recovery plant would have made this obvious to e ven the moderately expert.
I didn't. I pointed out that the one paper mill I did known something abou t hadn't been. It closed down completely in 1993 - replaced by a more moder n set-up, 47 km down the coat at Devonport.
Efficiency is a rather specific measure - you compare what goes in with wha t comes out. Self-sufficiency is rather easier to document.
Burning some of the timber that comes in to generate energy could make a pa per mill self-sufficient. It might not be the best use of the timber.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 5:19:42 AM UTC+11, snipped-for-privacy@downunder.com w rote:
. .have to make the best of what they've got left. My father saw the plaque in one of the paper mills in an invaded but not nicked area, commemorating th e manager and the technical manager who the Russians had shot for the crime of being managers during the invasion.
I'm wondering whether my father misunderstood what he was being told. The i ncursion might have happened twenty years earlier than he though, in the Fi nish Civil War which followed the Russian revolution and eventually establi shed Finland as a nation state.
Shooting mangers for being managers is the kind of political violence that seems to have gone on then.
My father didn't speak or read Finnish. He was better in Swedish - the Burn ie paper mill bought the sixth Kamyr continuous digester (and the first in the Southern Hemisphere) and my father worked out how to run it counter-cu rrent, which Kamyr had been trying to do for years, and patented the proces s.
When Johan Richter wrote a company history, my father got a mention and the signed copy of the history he sent to my father with a generous personal m essage is now in the Melbourne University technology archive, along with mo st of my father's papers.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
The old "a million men with teaspoons" line.
More jobs to do something useful isn't necessarily lower productivity.
In this particular case the contrast is between 0.9 million people keeping an existing industry growing at a few percent per year, and 9.5 million peo ple active in the rapidly expanding renewable energy business.
Your line "10x the people to generate a fraction of the power is shocking inefficiency" was fatuous.
The people aren't generating the power in either industry. Mostly they are installing new plant and maintaining existing plant.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Yes, some paper mill managers were shot by local workers during the Civil War.
A century ago, the language used by upper management at most mills was Swedish.
Is it? That's not just generation, it's creation of infrastructure; you don't judge a hydroelectric dam by the employee count of concrete manufacture, but you DO judge 'green economy' by solar-cell manufacturing plants.
The jobs comparison is intrinsically an apples/oranges inequality, and 'to generate...power' is NOT an obviously correct attribution. A real skeptic doesn't jump to conclusions from such information. Be a skeptic.
Welcome to the real world. Unaccounted resource use (clean air, clean water) might not show up on a business ledger, but these ARE limited resources, and OUGHT to be conserved just as though they WERE on the ledger. Economics deals with allocation of human and other resources, it does NOT reside solely in ledger enumerations.
We can correct that. Some folk are blind to this issue, but that's OK; they'll be shoved aside.
That just tells us that green power is very expensive.
Before the advent of mechanical harvesters, there were plenty of jobs for people doing the work by hand. Doesn't make it a good thing.
Sylvia.
People used to murder other people for their clothes. It's hard to weave cloth by hand.
And people would burn down a house for the nails.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
---------------------------------------
** Two unrelated statements, the first of which is false.Well clothed folk might be attacked in order to steal their clothing as it was valuable and could be sold for cash.
The thieves could not wear them, cos that would arouse great suspicion.
** Sometimes owners would do that, so they could build another elsewhere and not have to buy new, expensive nails.FYI to all: John Larkin believes any damn thing he reads. FFS don't go believing him.
..... Phil
Thanks for confirming.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
It doesn't, and it isn't.
The effort being put into installing new plant is no guide to the price of the power the new plant generates.
Sure, but that was not the point being made.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
He didn't confirm your claim. Murdering people tended to make a mess of their clothes - less violent assault left the thieves with a more easily sold product.
You really do seem to think that anything short of aggressive disagreement constitutes "confirmation", then you get upset because we have learned to disagree with you explicitly enough for you to notice.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
exactly..
anyone who is really concerned about their "carbon footprint" would be using a clothes line, not a dryer.
m
You mean direct conversion solar power?
-- Rick C. -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
And not flying a private plane to get a cheeseburger.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
But driving 200 miles to go skiing is fine.
-- Rick C. -++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.