Nicola Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves [1931]

Well, lets see. Energy is conserved. Free energy violates that. That seems pretty simple. Well, not for you but that is your fault.

You keep exceeding your previous level of stupidity.

If this is true I've never seen

I expect that you will continue your stupid comments in any case. It is also very funny to hear comments like this from you who look to be no more than 14 givne your overall level of stupidity.

Yes, you are still an idiot.

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That is a good point, thanks.

...for a total of $267.65.

That's not science, that's marketing.

Mark L. Fergerson

That is the whole point of these scams. Gaby does not get it.

Say, "Doug", I've been reading your posts and I notice that in NONE of them do you ever display any knowledge of science or math. All you seem to do is call people names and accuse them of having no scientific knowledge. Since you are obviously an English literature major having "fun" on the internet, how would you know what Gaby "gets"? Got that dissertation analyzing the use of the word "Thee" in Elizabethan poetry written yet? No? Well, you'll just have to stay in school for another 8 or 10 years. No matter, you'll love it, even though we all know what you DO NOT "get"! :-)

It took over an hour to view this video.

I'm tempted to coin the term "jnkyard science" to distinguish it's superiority as compared to "junk science".

The longitudinal aspect claimed is most evident when the exciting oscillator frequency was scanned from about 1MHz to almost 3 HHz, where it is alleged that the lowere frequency resonance was that of the "longitudinal" wave while the 2.5+- MHz reonannce was termed that of a transverse wave. I can find an analagous distinction between the "near field" of an antenna as opposed to he "far field" of the same antenna.

Indeed, in the near field, the electric and magnetic field vetors may not be normal to one another, and indeed one can demonstrate the transfer of energy across a small amount of space... likely out as far as 1/10th of a wavelength... for 1MHZ, the e-m wavelength is 300 meters, so transmissions within a laboratory building at 1 MHz could be "claimed" by Tesla to be "longitudinal".

I sense an incongruence of the use of the term "longitudinal", easy to commit in the ripe old year of 1900AD. What tesla said was that it can be demonstraed that energy can be transmited without wires. He the then labeled such a transmission mode as "longitudinal" wave transmmission. We in our modern lexicon have been trained to interpret the term "longitudinal wave" to mean pressure, or pressure-like influence, pressing in the direction of wave travel. In about the same time frame, the e-m waves being described by Hertz and Maxwell required the postulating of lateral (or transverse) electric and magnetic fields in order to satify their theoretical develpments plus the static and magnetic observations recorded up to that time. To repeat, I see - using modern lexicon - Tesla's term "longitudinal" to be the "near field" or "induction fielld" transfer of energy This transmiddion mode is very common nowadays and put to beneficial use everday inside transformers and inside electic motors. Such transmission distances are minute, but the principal remains intact The greater distances speculated by Tesla in the end proved to be vastly inefficient, and led o the quiet death of his patents and efforts.

I did not take the time to view this second video.

Angelo Campanella

That is because you do not recognize the science. The posts of gaby only need to say "that violates the conservation of energy". It only needs to be said once no matter which fraud he brings up. He does not like or understand that basic law of physics and so he certainly cannot go past that.

All you

That is a fact if you do not understand the basic laws of phyiscs.

Since you are obviously an English literature

It is funny to hear a fool like you guess what my education is. You are no more accurate on that than you are in any of your feeble attempts to attack science.

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Oh, it's worth checking out the other video.

Btw, your imagination about Tesla's patent is seriously laughable.

Anyway,

Good luck on your junkyard

_____

Still no knowledge of science or math! You have no idea what "conservation of energy" even means. Your idea is that you will specify which sources of energy you will allow to be counted and which ones you won't! Idiot. Never heard of ZPE I take it. Go read a freshman physics magazine. You clearly have NO understanding of physics.

Right. CB radio is SO much fun! You can hide behind your anonymous "handle" and shout names at all the truckers driving by. That makes you SO superior to everyone else. Probably you work for the CIA, can speak 25 languages fluently and can't say anything intelligent in any of them.

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What does "affected by the law of the inverse square" mean? It means nothing relevant here. Inverse square applies to a point source radiating into free space. The idea is that any system looks like a point source if you get far enough away. Any system but Tesla's! You have no idea what you are talking about. Tesla's system didn't transmit power into all of free space as you pretend. Tesla's great discovery was that that the ionosphere is conductive! Thus there is an electromagnetic cavity made between the spherical conductive earth and the spherical conductive ionosphere. So when you feed power into coaxial cable, the law of inverse square determines the amount of power that comes out the other end, right? WRONG. The law doesn't apply. The lost energy depends on conductive losses not on geometric spread. Same with Tesla's system. Perhaps you weren't aware of the things. Tesla was.

ge very

Oh sure. Tesla may have invented a decent motor or two but as he got older, he just lost all his intelligence and got paranoid and started wearing a tin foil hat. I guess that means we can all turn in everything he invented as worthless trash. Your motors, your electric transmission system, your car speedometers, your OR and AND gates, your VTOL aircraft, your radio, your tv, in short just throw out the

20th century and take us all back to ox carts because hey, don't you know? Tesla was insane so nothing he says needs to be listened to. And if you start supporting Tesla we will all reject YOU as insane too! Everybody get the message?

I heard that you wear a tin foil hat!

See, you do not even recognize science.

You have no idea what

Well, you are off into your delusions of what you think science should be while the rest of us live with science as it is.

Yes, you like to demonstrate your ignorance and you do it very well.

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Except, of course, it applies exactly.

Inverse square applies to a point source

And thus lossy.

Thus there is

Even if this were true, it would be a very lossy cavity since the conductivity of the ionosphere is not infinite.

So when you feed power into

Which in the ionosphere case are very high.

Same with Tesla's system. Perhaps you weren't aware of the

So, it does not work as he claimed and it would not work even if the cavity idea was correct.

Tesla did turn into a crank and was ignored in his later years. It is funny going to the Tesla museum and hearing all the wild claims from the guides telling how much of modern physics they think is wrong since Tesla had his claims which they believe.

I guess that means we can all turn in

Yes, your paranoia has rotted your brain.

OK, then, god dammit! BUILD ONE AND DEMONSTRATE IT, or get lost.

Put up or shut up.

Put your money where your mouth is.

But all this blathering about imaginary stuff outside the known laws of physics is merely annoying.

Thanks, Rich

The antenna of Tesla's wireless power system can be considered a point source. For a given power intensity at one point, doubling the distance from that source will dissipate the wireless power over an area the square of the first point. Thanks, Doug // tbh which is the square of the former point

Have you been reading _my_ posts?

I repeat; the material Gaby cited is NOT science, it's marketing.

Cranks just love to make stupid claims about Tesla's accomplishments, both real and imagined, because they, for the most part, have no concept of what his accomplishments actually were much less how he went about accomplishing them.

From Gaby's post:

Tesla longitudinal electricity

Just hilarious. First "gotcha" is the constant misuse (one might say "abuse") of the phrase "harmonic resonance".

These guys do NOT grok Tesla's resonant transformer systems, even at the component level. They don't know why they need a "medical Tesla coil" to excite their transmitter/receiver system, they think the spark gaps "accelerate the wave", they're using PLASMA BALLS instead of metal balls for the terminals, they're using COAX for the high- potential windings on both transmitter and receiver...

It's just bathetic.

The guy with the beard seems to have a few clues, but really, the receiving coil is wound in the opposite direction from that of the transmitter? Please.

The "demonstration of single-wire power transmission" is somewhat flawed by the mention of how the unplugged wire "is quite energized, high voltage is on it".

Well of course there is; that illustrates the return path, through the air capacitance between the end of the wire and the place it was previously plugged into. Notice the lamp is much dimmer in "single- wire" mode. That's due to the loss through the air path.

Then, Bearded Guy hooks up an ammeter to the output and measures a screaming .6 amps! But, he doesn't mention how much he's putting into the transmitter; they never do.

I couldn't bring myself to continue past that point.

So far, nothing about "Longitudinal Electric Waves".

(Yes, they exist; no, they're nothing new- everybody who knows electricity knows about them; no, they are NOT useful for transmitting huge amounts of power because they exist only in a dielectric medium, and are frightfully lossy. Also, there's ALWAYS a return path, even if it's not obvious.)

Then Gaby linked us to:

Tesla transverse and longitudinal electric waves

Load of crap from the get-go. Water waves are neither pure transverse or pure longitudinal. The motion of the individual water molecules is NOT up-and-down, it's in a circle:

He gets water and energy flow in tsunamis completely WRONG. The water movement is exactly like any other wave, it's just that unlike surface waves they involve all the water from the surface to the seabottom, and it's not a very large movement for any given bit of water until it hits a coastline, when things get concentrated.

He uses his mis-illustration, together with mysterious-sounding terminology- "phase quadrature" and "phase conjunction" to try to illustrate why longitudinal waves are different from transverse waves, and gets it completely WRONG.

Also, I really like Bearded Guy's implication that longitudinal waves propagate faster than transverse waves, which is complete bullshit as illustrated IN HIS OWN DEMO. Watch the demo of transverse waves very closely; notice that as he starts to make the first ripple, the guy's hand holding the other end is pulled toward Bearded Guy's end JUST AS QUICKLY as when Bearded Guy demo's longitudinal waves.

I saw no point in continuing with this video either.

I sure as hell won't be spending any money on their books/pamphlets.

If you really want some hard information on Tesla's work on transmission and reception of power, why waste your time (and money) reading what other people say about Tesla?

Why not instead read what he himself had to say? Start with his _Colorado Springs Notes_:

(not $24.99, FREE)

and the larger compilation of much of his work:

(not $39.95, FREE)

Then, rather than watch/read somebody else's blather about what they THINK they did, why not actually build some of the described gear and do your own damn experimenting? You don't need huge piles of money, or even lots of room:

Just take sensible precautions and DON'T ELECTROCUTE YOURSELF OR ANYONE ELSE!

The most sensible precaution? Take Tesla's own advice for working with electricity; keep your LEFT HAND in your pocket. That makes it much less likely that current can flow through your heart and stop it beating!

Mark L. Fergerson

point

Lessee. If I put a "point source" loop into a microwave cavity, the power inside that cavity is going to be distributed by falling off according the inverse square distance from that driving loop. Right? Idiot. Your first mistake was thinking "Doug" knows anything at all about science. He is here to mislead everyone and apparently that also includes you.

As to whether or not Tesla's power system actually worked is an open question. Tesla loved to make wild statements to the press which they would dutifully repeat while he laughed. But on the other hand he asserted that the system was perfected. The interesting thing is that his huge Long Island tower which everyone says was supposed to be his power transmitting station, was said by Tesla himself in court under oath to be a transatlantic radio system NOT wireless power transmission (except as a large stretch of that terminology) So Like I said it's an open question. Those to pretend to know the answer as far as I can see are lying.

And I might add that given the size of the tower and the amount of RF power he planned to pump into it, there is little doubt that had funding not been pulled Tesla would have beat everyone for transatlantic communications which in those days of messages by ship would have surely been a successful project.

So benj wants to demonstrate his stupidity yet again. What benj seems to know nothing about is conductivity and how it affects losses. Even if there were this magical cavity, the losses would immediately use up the power and make it useless. The other part always left out in schemes like these is power density. If there were a perfect cavity, and there is not, the power density in it would be so low as to be useless for collection. So benj, you idea both does not work and would be useless if it did. Try something different.

Not to scientists.

Tesla loved to make wild statements to the press which they

And the physics say he was wrong. Guess who wins that contest.

The interesting thing is that

So, denying the laws of physics make sense to you and telling you the truth is lying? No wonder you never learned any science.

Even if the conductivity of the earth and ionosphere were perfect, it is not a wave-guide in the traditional sense. If the source extended perfectly from earth to ionosphere, you would still only have a 'line source' and the radiant power would fall off at 1/r (as opposed to 1/r^2 for a spherical radiation pattern from a true point source).

You keep making this silly comparison to linear wave guides which extend in only one dimension whereas Tesla's idea of a 'cavity' between earth and ionosphere is a two dimensional 'cavity'. So energy flux drops off by 1/r as you move away from a perfect 'line source'.

Add to this the losses in the two 'conductors' of your 'cavity' and the power transmission performance becomes abysmal. Just as Tesla himself found.

daestrom