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You're so incredibly ignorant it defies imagination. Death camps were nothing new at the time. In the US-Phillipines war we rounded up millions of rebellious civilians in the south and starved them to death in camps just like that. Those people had nothing to defend themselves with, still working with spears at the time.
Economics was just one part of the equation.
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Yup, aspirin and Lipitor, and the occasional gin and tonic. You got me there.
You're out of your mind.
Where did you get that number?
The Indian thing is a black mark, for sure--not so much the wars as the broken treaties. When folks come round collecting the scalps of women and children, it does tend to ruffle a few feathers, after all.
All unsupported drivel.
The outrage over Zimmermann was that the American isolationists were trying to be scrupulously neutral and fair, but were forced to realize that the Germans were not. The Germans had used a secure American diplomatic cable channel--given to them (most unwisely) because they promised to use it solely to further peace negotiations and never for the conduct of the war. The level of trust in German good intentions on the part of American isolationists (including Wilson) is hard for us to imagine today. They thought they were part of the same civilization, but they weren't, at least not in the ways that mattered.
Instead, they used that channel to intrigue with Mexico and Japan, offering a solid alliance and large scale military and financial support if they would agree to invade the continental USA. It was German malice and duplicity towards America that counted, not the imminence of the threat. (And I might add that the threat wasn't that negligible at the time. General Pershing had recently taken a big chunk of the US Army into the hills of Mexico, trying to catch Pancho Villa and failing. At that time, they weren't what they are now, by a long long shot.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Right, and the Wehrmacht was fighting suicidally to keep that path open, because they knew perfectly well what the Russians would do when they arrived. They were perfectly right about that. The reason they risked drowning and fire was so they could be overrun by the Americans or the British. I'd trust their willingness to suffer and die for that before I'd trust your facile equivalence doctrine.
In real life, so would you, whatever you say from your armchair.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
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Not going waste time looking up the details for you, suffice to say you are mistaken.
nBy that time the US was supplying large quantities of financial support to GB.
eA Mexican invasion of the US in 1917 was an absurd proposition. They had no here near the size of military and armaments as the US. The only major arms manufacturer in the Americas was the US, so a promise of German loans to procure arms was vapid. The British controlled the Atlantic shipping lanes so that importation from Germany was an impossibility. The Mexicans also realized that there was no way they could reasonably occupy any portion of the US and maintain control even against the civilian population here. Pancho Villa is irrelevant. Guerilla forces are not usually employed as invasion forces.
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Another interesting statistic is that an estimated 170,000 Germans committed suicide as the fall of Berlin became imminent. Their backs were against the wall, fight or flight, at that point in the war, free will was largely absent.
Another excellent reason to not start a war.
-- John Larkin, President Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
I've recently re-read Tuchman's *The Zimmermann Telegram*, which has the whole tale, so I'm actually pretty well up on it as it happens. As I said upthread, the Kaiser had been trying to get a naval base in Mexico--he tried to buy the Gulf of California at one point, and then was thwarted in smaller projects such as Whale Bay. And Japan was acting hard-to-get, in order to increase its slice of the pie at the Armistice. They'd swallowed the Kuriles and half of Sakhalin from Russia in 1905, and wouldn't have minded some the rest of Sakhalin and fishing rights in the Sea of Okhotsk for dessert. If they'd changed sides, it might have knocked Russia out of the war months earlier.
In loans, not grants. The British liquidated most of their overseas investments to finance the war. The isolationists wanted to trade equally with the Central Powers, but the British blockade made that a moot point. And all of that was perfectly legal under international law, which held freedom of the seas and neutral commerce inviolate. Germany was a signatory to all those treaties.
The Germans ran three shiploads of guns into Veracruz, just to make life interesting to the Americans and keep them at home. The point, once again, is that the Germans made use of a secure American communications channel in order to plan war against the United States. No country is going to take that lying down, especially on top of unrestricted submarine warfare. The Germans were guilty as charged.
I didn't say he was defeated by Villa, just that they chased all over and couldn't _find_ him, in months of looking. In early 1917 the US Army was having its problems fighting Indians and bandits, so invading the US from Mexico wasn't as far-fetched then as it would be now.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
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I was just telling you what the Mexican leadership at the time decided and why. I think they had a better idea of the situation than you or Tuchman. Tuchman rarely makes a coherent argument, she specializes in denigrating Germans and the Catholic Church with bits and pieces of anecdotal hearsay..
So was Absolutely Fabulous, and *that* actually was worth my time.
I'll stick with NatGeo and TruTV and The History Channel, thanks.
Why am I not surprised. Where I now live, high in the CO Rockies, Jeeps are in the top 4 most popular brands. Not surprising. Honda is not even on the chart. This is hilarious, as a former SFBA resident and pro mechanic, I know that Jeeps are junk and Hondas rock! Amazing what ppl will buy based on perceived requirements and/or needs.
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-- Fight internet CENSORSHIP - Fight SOPA-PIPA Contact your congressman and/or representative, now! http://projects.propublica.org/sopa/ vi --the heart of evil!
The Jeep is fabulous in deep snow, the Honda useless. The Audi is great until it scrapes bottom... not much ground clearance.
I really bought the Audi because it was seriously red. I am *so* tired of black and white and grey cars.
-- John Larkin, President Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
They didn't have enough money left for proper equipment, after overpaying the players.
-- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
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And yet from about 500 AD to 1500 AD they were the keepers of western civilization. Funny how things change when the victors keep rewriting history.
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Actually, the Irish did that.
Funny how things change when the victors keep rewriting
So, a bunch of Brit historians made up the gas chambers?
-- John Larkin, President Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
You're out of your mind. The Germans didn't even begin to come out of destroy-everything mode until Charlemagne, and then those ones gradually became French. It was only about 100 years later that Western Europe finally got rid of the Vikings, and then the recovery was startlingly rapid.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Not in that era. Look at the date range.
Gee, they were about 400 years later. Look at the date range AGAIN!=20
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