My 1200 volt 5 MHz Pockels Cell pulser resulted from throwing parts around. My current LC oscillator is almost as bad. I didn't understand it until the simulation, and a breadboard, were working. Intuition guides throwing. You can't design circuits by truly random fiddling because the solution space is too big.
"Something I overlooked" could be an entirely new concept.
Something like a 5-resistor voltage divider or opamp circuit, made from parts in stock, is way too hard to design on paper.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet. "Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
e. I really liked the guys view on what the ltspice program is for which is so that the engineer can get better intuition as to how his circuits work. It is a piece of verification but should not be used is the sole purpose o f verifying. I guess I like it because it resonated with my viewpoints abou t use of such a program
Before math was used rigorously in construction, it was not at all uncommon to either build exactly what was built before or to risk it falling down. How many of the Medieval churches fell down killing people before they got them figured out... mostly.
Even today we have failures when we do something new and fail to properly a nalyze it mathematically. The disaster was prevented by an undergraduate s tudent who was doing a math study of the building and found anomalous resul ts. The rest is history and midtown Manhattan was saved.
Engineering without math is just kids playing in the mud.
-- Rick C. ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Good! I'm happy that worked out for you. I, on the other hand, don't randomly fiddle. Maybe I'm missing out on something.
In what way? What does that mean? What concept?
Really? You think a resistor divider is too hard to design on paper? So you make a 5 resistor divider in SPICE and then tweak the values until you get what you want? That sounds like it will take more time than doing the paper work. Maybe I don't understand your stated problem.
His account of siege warfare is a laugh. Besieged cities were almost always conquered by hunger, not siege machines.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
....His account of siege warfare is a laugh. Besieged cities were almost always conquered by hunger, not siege machines......
You missed the point.
snipped-for-privacy@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: ...
Any reference for that as commercial product?
Thanks
-- Uwe Bonnes snipped-for-privacy@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de
Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 1623569 ------- Fax. 06151 1623305 ---------
Rick C wrote in news:a9a7d4a4-9d21- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Micro Cap 12 is now free.
Bill Sloman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Micro Cap is no clone and is free. Did not used to be.
I often do that. I want to use resistor values that we have in stock, better yet ones already on the BOM, so the final divider may require a dozen or two iterations. Each case has to be evaluated to see how close things are. After you fiddle with it a bit, you begin to intuit about what affects what, so the process moves right along.
I have a program, RUGRAT, that finds 2-resistor dividers based on parts in stock. But it can't do more complex networks.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet. "Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
My launch customer is not moving his laser project along very well, so we decided to go public with it.
It was a lot of work, but I learned a lot too.
Really, this was designed by instinct and simulation. It was really a surprise. (So were some of the SiC fet models!)
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet. "Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
---------------------------------
** What an absurd claim.Makes it very clear that Bill has none so has no clue what it is - apart from reading a dictionary.
Good engineers have "insight" = a deep understanding of how stuff works.
This leaves all the software guys gasping.
Insight informs one's "intuition" - so your assessment of what might be possible with what is currently available is very good.
** And if you have none you are stuffed...... Phil
One of Jim Williams' books has a great chapter by Barrie Gilbert, "Where do little circuits come from?"
I've known lots of engineers who just tweaked circuits they found on data sheets or on eval boards. One guy I know has a nice little business basically repackaging eval boards.
Most people get along fine without ever having original ideas. Society only needs a small minority of creative lunatics.
Spice hugely improves creating and testing wild ideas.
I'm just now iterating a complex design using a soldering iron. It's a huge pain. The parts I'm battling don't Spice well.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
e. I really liked the guys view on what the ltspice program is for which is so that the engineer can get better intuition as to how his circuits work. It is a piece of verification but should not be used is the sole purpose o f verifying. I guess I like it because it resonated with my viewpoints abou t use of such a program
Sure, You'll also agree that generations of wisdom went into mixing the right mortars, smelting iron/steel and breaking masts with sails*.
I totally agree about intelligent fiddling. (intuition) which you only get by fiddling with stuff.
I should do more ltspice. I mostly fiddle with solder.
George H. Oh Przemek, thanks for the video.
on"
---------------------
** JL leaves you wondering if he is in agreement - or not.Guess he just likes to "have an edge" as Mr Eastwood remarked.
.... Phil
Engineering involves thinking about what you are doing. If you rely only on intuition you are an artist, not an engineer.
from reading a dictionary.
Like any experience engineer, I've got loads of intuitions about what will and won't work, most of them pretty good. Electronic design is the process of systematically testing those intuitions, eventually by building and test ing a real device, but it's a lot cheaper to check them out on paper and w ith computer simulations.
.Useful engineers can articulate this insight, and spell out to other people what they think is going on. Intuition doesn't lend itself to that kind of communication.
Why?
possible with what is currently available is very good.
It can be, but it pays to test it against mathematical models - and not jus t the ones built into your Spice simulation engine.
Probably. But nobody lacks it completely - humans are great at making sense of what they see, though sometimes their scheme for making sense of the wo rld can be pretty wonky. John Larkin has clear intuitions about climate cha nge, which he's got from climate change denial propaganda.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
There's no association between creativity and lunacy.
Alan Dower Blumlein was a remarkably creative engineer, with 128 patents to his name.
He was about as far from being a lunatic as one can imagine. I've known two people who have chalked up 25 patents each - my father and a friend from EMI Central Research (where Blumlein wa working when he died). Both were perfectly sane
It makes it cheaper and quicker, but Spice models are never entirely prefect.
There are other ways of predicting what a circuit will do, and you can - in principle - create you own Spice models of parts which better reflect what they do in the circumstances in which you wish to use them.
Commercial Spice is optimised for the sorts of circuits that most people test. If you want to do something unconventional, you are likely to need unconventional device models.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
No. No good efficient engineering without intuition.
There are 37 possible solutions to my problem. I could try them one by one and finish in 2027. I could simulate for hours, do analysis and calculations, to determine where to start.
Good intuition and experience 'might' make me choose the right one at the startoff. And then, combine that with good engineering and simulation and soldering and ....
Klaus
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Yes. Many inventions are not new, but are variations on previous themes.
Everything is one step at a time, but even though we know so very well how to walk, we still do not venture forth blinfolded.
Perhaps not, but John Larkin was boosting the claim that "Intuition is the most important part of engineering."
You'd have to be entirely bereft of judgment to try them one by one in random order.
Since all of us have chosen the wrong one from time to time, and had to back off an start over, it would seem that intuition and judgement aren't entirely reliable tools.
Promoting an aspect of the job that doesn't work out all that reliably as the most important part of the process isn't an exhibition of sound judgement.
So which aspect strikes you as the "most important part of the process"?
Intuition is just unorgansied experience. The difference between art and engineering is that we try to rationalise what we are seeing, so that we can tell other people how to do it.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Less than obvious variations - "not obvious to those skilled in the art".
If you don't think about what you think you know, and haven't got a clear idea of why you think that, you are working in the dark.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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