"Joerg" schreef in bericht news:CVPug.122228$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Yes, 24 out of +100000 designers ;)
Top dollar niche market. Not a big loss.
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Isn't that "ein holle Frase" ? What I indeed find most interesting is that nobody gives any figures for the likelyhood that tin whiskers are to be expected. Do they grow on 10% of the number of solder joints, or 1%, or 0,1% or... or 0,00000000000001% ? But time will tell, and in 10 years we know more.
I doubt they are playing Russian roulette this time.
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Thanks, Frank.
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That would be "hohle Phrase" in German (a statement without content behind it). Not so. They asked themselves the almost same question that I had asked you: Is there a quantifiable means of predicting? Ok, you admitted you aren't an expert on mainstream lead-free solder and neither am I. Fact is, during this whole thread as well as on the web the is an eerie absence of such data. Everybody just seems to hope that it won't be that bad. Now that is a wonderful base for legislative action as we have just seen it with RoHS.
It's not that hasty legislation only happens in Europe although it does seem to fester there. In California some politicians went ahead and mandated an oxygenator in our gasoline to reduce smog. Noble cause, just as reducing lead is. Our gasoline became less efficient, making my car burn about 10% more per mile than with Nevada gas. But the nightmare came only years later. It was found that the chosen oxygenator MTBE had leached into the ground water and was now contaminating one well after the other.
You are preaching to the choir here. That's exactly the point: Maybe there aren't any figures.
But then it may be too late for some industries, mainly in Europe.
Hi Joerg, AIUI, the legislation to require 10% oxygenator in gasoline was promoted by farmers. In response--and eager to promote social goodness and progress in general--the legislature reasoned impeccably "Gee, who doesn't love farmers?," and so it was happily agreed to.
The intended oxygenator was ethanol, it just turned out that this was kind of inconvenient, as ethanol was expensive, and enough would've been needed to make up 10% of CA's gasoline. Darn, details can be annoying, can't they?
Some genius then figured out MTBE could be synthesized from butane or methane or some such, which was plentiful, and cheaper.
The fuel burns cleaner but contains less energy, so you have to burn proportionally more of it. And, MTBE is nasty--it's a potent carcinogen, and gets into the groundwater.
Net environmental result: more toxic gasoline you have to burn more of, the spawning of an industry-plus-infrastructure for large-scale manufacture, transport, and distribution of an unpleasant poison, and large-scale contaminations from the inevitable spills & accidents involving it.
Moral: There's nothing high-minded politicians can't do when they just put their thinking cap[sic] on.
Plus most of the affected farmers weren't in California but in the mid west so it wouldn't benefit their constituents much. That would also mean increased pollution because the stuff would need to be hauled. But I guess this is too complicated of a thinking process for some of the decision makers. Those darn details.
Well, it did get into the ground water. It was one of those "oh s..t" scenarios. Europe might be in for one of those as well with their RoHS. I hope not but if they do it'll be very nasty.
Sadly, that is true. However, in America we have a rather well functioning democratic process that allows anybody to take part. So if there is an issue and a sufficient number of constituents aren't happy and make that known, then usually something is done about it. And when they get really unhappy their can even recall governors directly.
Not gasoline that is more toxic. What James meant was more consumption of gasoline. That is because oxygenators reduce the BTU per gallon and that reduces gas mileage. AFAICT from my vehicle it is about a 10% increase for current California gas. It was a few years ago that I tested and it could have changed because MTBE was phased out.
Hi Joerg, Richard has it half-right: I meant both a) a larger quantity of fuel must be burned for the same motive result, nullifying the emissions advantage, and also b) a fuel of higher toxicity results, due to the MTBE. Gasoline was never very good to drink, but MTBE made it considerably worse, and a lot harder to get rid of.
True, when the gasoline isn't combusted in an engine but leaks into the ground then it certainly is more toxic. Gas stations are one concern but I guess nobody in politics has thought about all the fuel that spills while refilling lawn mowers and generators. Most people I have seen doing that did not use funnels.
Gasoline stations were the biggest offenders. Eventually those underground tanks leak. It's very hard to notice a leak in an underground tank that large, whose contents are constantly being turned over, so quite a bit of gasoline can escape over time before being detected. My former outfit got some nibbles on solving that leak-detection problem (though we never landed the business).
Once in the ground, a "plume" of contamination spreads from the point-source, poisoning the soil, and reaching groundwater deep in the earth some time later. Sometimes a lot later. We had a big local to-do some years back after discovering contamination in the ground water, which was traced to a minor leaks at couple of gas stations. Other stations were then examined, and *most* of them leaked. One-by-one, the stations have all closed down, exhumed their tanks, and put in new ones, but the MTBE is in the ground to stay; we'll have to live with it.
For tile, the sell a solid tungsten carbide 1/4 inch diamond cut router bit. It walks right through normal clay based tile, such as is typically seen in bathrooms (eg. 4 inch square clay bisque tile). It would have a problem with porcelain floor tile, as it is much harder, but it would still cut it...slowly. You have to let these bits cut at their own rate. Forcing them is a recipe for instant destruction of the bit.
In Germany that problem has been solved since many decades. By law in-ground oil tanks for heating oil, whether residential or commercial, must be double-walled. There is a test liquid between inner and outer wall. When either wall is compromised the level of this fluid begins to drop and a really loud alarm sounds, two red lights flash etc. The disable-switch of this unit carries a tamper seal and IIRC the inspector who checks the furnace every year is supposed to test the unit and look for signs of tampering.
Very sensible, and elegant. The guys who came to us wanted an electronic solution, to track a tank's in-and-outflow with infinite, impractical precision (we were to provide the telemetry), but they failed; electronics isn't always the answer.
A totalizer? That's ridiculous, that idea probably came from a bureaucrat.
It seems like the usual "not invented here" syndrome. Why not just copy the German system if it works? But NIH syndromes can be found over there as well. Instead of copying California's proven Fastrak toll system they absolutely had to invent their own, causing various initial blunders.
The leak detectors in Germany are dirt simple, I'll try to recall it from my gray cells: A small pipe from the intermediate cavity into the house connects to a little reservoir the size of a two-gallon paint bucket. Inside is a float switch and that connects to the flashing lights and siren unit. No electronics, plain and simple. The reservoir has a side glass so the inspector merely has to look, no need to gauge with a dip stick. The reservoir's mounting height is critical and must be matched to the buried tank, typically by using a water level. I think they also have units for tankside mounting but ours was inside the house. BTW, they also have sensors (now mandatory AFAIR) that connect to the tanker truck upon delivery. This sensor shuts off the truck's pump when a certain fill level is exceeded, to avoid topping off spills.
California tried to get a waver from the federal government and was turned down. MTBE was imposed on CA from Washington.
For slightly more cost, the oil companies were willing to make fuel without the MTBE but that, in fact, burned cleaner. It was a question of which hydrocarbons were in the fuel. I think the trick was that the longer and shorter chains are the trouble makers but the middle length ones less so. By a bit of refinery tuning, the cleaner gas could be made.
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Unfortunately, on the down side, there is a lack of information for the voters to work with. Democracy requires an informed public to function well. American TV "news" programs are shallow enough that you could wade through them without getting your ankles wet.
On technical matters, news programs are just horrid. The best example I have is from several years back. The news tease said that someone had invented a new more efficient electric motor. I stayed up and watched because I was interested. They showed you his wife, his dog, and his workshop but not the motor. The only technical detail given was that the capacitor was larger. There was nothing about how much better or whether it was larger or cost more or anything like that. Imagine that a ballot measure was put forward requiring the state to use these motors. Chances are it would pass. After all, his dog *was* cute.
Well, no matter where the decision was made it was made by bureaucrats and that is not a guarantee that it's safe. But even in cases we are unhappy with something in Washington we can write and (usually) receive a response or even some action. Seen it happen a few times. Try that in other Western countries and often all you get is some form letter. Try it in non-Western countries and the goons might come after you.
Sure but we do have a free and often pretty aggressive press. I strongly believe there is no lack of information in the US. There is, however, often a lack of interest on the part of the voters to get to the ground of something that irks them. It ain't enough to read uncle Leroy's political rant in the local paper.
Yes, it's work, but so far the Internet has delivered for me every single time. Sometimes it cost a lot of effort, like when they wanted to have us over the barrel (BIG $$) for an airport "safety" program that they wanted to sock the residents with. That took more than eight hours of research but considering that thousands of Dollars were at stake just for us it was well worth it. Didn't even have to use FOIA this time (what other country has FOIA?). Found the facts, wrote a rather pointed attorney-style letter (after that one guy actually thought I was one...), mailed it certified, presented the facts to a supervisor and got him on our side, and boy did they become defensive at the next board meeting. You could almost see the goose pimples come up when our agenda item was called up. Since the meeting had to be public they had to hear us and it had to be recorded. We still wanted to be good citizens despite of what they'd tried to pull off but they paid. Every single nickel. IOW the democratic process worked.
How do you rate ABC's nightly ( I think that's what they call it ) news ?
BBC features it on its 24 hour news service BBC24. I like to watch it from time to time to get a US perspective. It seems reasonably good but certainly not as in depth as the specialist news programmes we get here like Channel 4's excellent hour long evening slot at 7pm.
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Indeed is there any hour long news programme in the US ?
Where I sit, it's like nothing but news and TV preachers from about 4 AM to about 9 AM. It gets boring, switching from station to station, seeing rehashes of each other's "stories". There is some in-depth stuff on weekly shows like Meet the Press and stuff, but that's not so much "News" as watching a sort of loose debate.
Don't you think that we have 24 hour news services out here in the wild? CNN, for starters. Fox News and I'm sure there are others that I can't get on basic cable.
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Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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