Is mcu pwm a decent way to control a power led current?

Power LEDs are more efficient at lower currents but you have to do what's compatible with your driver. Some power LED buck drivers support linear regulation and a bypass capacitor in addition to PWM. You'll have to read the spec sheet, though. It will go "pop" if you make it resonate.

Linear regulation and PWM alone doesn't get you much of a perceived brightness range without hitting problems near 0% and 100%. Some buck drivers support PWM on top of the linear intensity control so you can do

10% duty cycle on 5% current to get 0.5% intensity.
Reply to
Kevin McMurtrie
Loading thread data ...

LED forward voltages are (from the physics) in the range of one to four volts; 12V would burn any simple LED diode to a crisp. So, either you are using a string of LEDs and not a single one, or your LED includes a current-limit resistor. Commercial LED lamps use several to hundreds of LEDs, arranged in series groups, with a resistor (to get the operation voltage to about 12V), and with multiple group + resistor (to get to a target brightness, or to string the light source out in a long linear array).

PWM without filtering will cause flicker; this will make (for instance) rotating machinery sometimes seem to be moving slowly. It isn't necessarily safe to do that. And, at 20 Hz or so, such illumination flicker can trigger epileptic episodes. So, all PWM schemes include some low-pass filtering

Forward-biased ideal diodes have a very low impedance (at 100 mA, at room temperature, about 0.004 ohms), so a capacitor would have to be huge to make much difference; an inductor is more practical. It also limits high frequency currents and associated RF emission.

You need to find out more about your LED (the load), and its heatsinking, before running ten watts into it.

PWM doesn't require a computer, of course; you could just build/use an oscillator with a variable duty cycle.

Reply to
whit3rd

"whit3rd"

** Rubbish - even at a few hundred Hz, all signs of flicker are gone.
** Not a concern outside industrial environments.
** Bollocks.

Where does this fool get this s**te from ?

** WHAAAAAATTTT ???

Who gives a hoot about " ideal diodes" ????

High power LEDs ( ie 5W) have dynamic impedances of more than 1 ohm at rated current.

** An NE555 will do that - but needs a pot to vary the duty cycle.

.... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

The ti.com site shows in one set of circuits, a large electrolytic cap in parallel with the led. What happened to traditional DC supply of inductor + cap?

Reply to
haiticare2011

Yes, the picaxe a montrosity, but easy to program. :) The Pic has a good (free) C compiler suite as well. AVR is good. Which do you like?

Reply to
haiticare2011

** NOW he tells us !!!!!!!!!.

So there is no real problem with PWM control.

150Hz or higher will do, just fine.

..... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

To the Pic has a crap free sort-of C compiler. You can also buy less crap sort-of C compilers for it. But because the cpu architecture is so bad, and so limited, there is no way to make an efficient standard C compiler for the processor.

There is only one reason I would pick a PIC over an AVR - that is if I wanted to use them for caltrops, as the DIP packages are good for hurting bare feet.

These days I would be unlikely to pick an AVR for a new project either, without some very good reasons. They are not bad devices, and the compiler is good (being gcc), but for most purposes you simply get much better value for money, and a much better processor, with ARM Cortex devices. My usual choice is Freescale Kinetis, but there can be good reasons for picking different Cortex vendors.

(I am talking about the PIC12 through PIC18 families here. The PIC24 is completely different weird architecture, and the PIC32 is a reasonable MIPS CPU smothered by bad marketing and management.)

Reply to
David Brown

It may help to recall that the retina is a pixelated array of photochemical integrators, that then feed nerve cells.

The photochemical response is essentially instantaneous. The nerves' output is a faithful function of the number of photons received within the integration interval, over an amazing range.

That process responses to average, not peak intensity.

IME, variation in actual LED output is responsible for all the apparent brightness differences.

I measured under photopic (light-adapted) conditions. The generations of white LEDs I tested were 30% more efficient at d.c. than pulsed.

Efficiency falls off drastically at high currents due to i^2*r losses, and the added insult that that makes them hotter, which they also don't like.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

"Spehro Pefhany" "Phil Allison"

** More like it.

.... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

"Kevin McMurtrie" "Phil Allison"

** Luxeon Star 5 watt range is speced at 1 ohm at 0.7 amps.

formatting link

Note 6.84V typical.

.... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

R_E = 25 ohms/I(mA), so an ideal diode at 100 mA is more like 0.25 ohms.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

Check this out...

formatting link

$4 arm prototyping kit.

Reply to
John S

in

inductor + cap?

Just because a circuit exists in EDN or on a vendor website does not mean that the circuit is any good (or even will work).

It has been this way for about 20 years now.

?-)

Reply to
josephkk

This issue of which mcu (i named a picaxe) recalls (for me) the history of the automatic transmission. The first automatics, I'm told, were called "slush boxes" or worse. And yet they caught on.

The picaxe is indeed a joke, performance-wise, but from a standing start to running code is often 30 minutes or less.

There is a saying among SW developers that many chips require the programmer to be the pre-processor. IOW, the more you have to know, the more it sucks you into its complexity.

I gotta tell you a universal truth: People are stupid. George Miller, a cognitive psychologist, wrote a paper, "Seven plus or minus two: the limit of human attention." And in polls, 90% of people say they as intelligent or more so, then the other 90%.

As Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limits." (woman, her).

In relation to an mcu, the interface should take a few things into account: Use cases mainly. IOW, 90% of the mcu usage is for 10% of it's capabilities.

That's probably the strength of interpreted languages like Python or Basic.

As R Crumb said, "It's a Ho Hum World."

I personally like C. It's the hammer I am used to. But I think the picaxe dumbed-down philosophy has some merits.

(This should not be interpreted as a covert endorsement for instant TV dinners, instant coffee, or deodorant soap.) ymmv. jb

Reply to
haiticare2011

You asked me which /I/ would prefer. I don't want a dumbed down picaxe

- /you/ may be one of the "universal stupid people" but I am not. As a professional developer, I will use appropriate tools for the job in hand. This might be an easy-to-use tool (such as Python), but it is because it is the most efficient choice at the time.

Sometimes ready-made easy-to-use development boards are the right choice, of course - in which case I would point you towards the Arduino project.

Reply to
David Brown

Yes, and I quickly add that I am most appreciative of your pointer to the Cypress board. They have quite a bit of documentation I will study.

You caught me in a "canned rant," but I am most appreciative of finding out about new soc, particularly any with good ADC/DMA. Thanks again.

Reply to
haiticare2011

I have several Raspberry Pi boards - I have looked at BBB as well. What I am looking for is a DMA/ADC portion. I see a lot of output terminals o each sides of the Cypress boards.

Reply to
haiticare2011

That wasn't me, it was John S. I am sure the PSoC4 devices are nice, however. I haven't used them myself (the older PSoC's used hideous cpus, and had so few programmable digital and analogue blocks that dedicated hardware in "conventional" microcontrollers were always cheaper and better). But with the PSoC4 you've got a nice core, and perhaps enough flexibility to make it worth the effort compared to a normal microcontroller.

I don't see why you think DMA is needed here - it is not exactly a demanding problem. Nor do you need an ADC that could be classified as "good" - pretty much any ADC is enough here.

Reply to
David Brown

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.