interesting thing about engineering education

some scarily simple stuff

dream on. The junk padding is different but there's no shortage of it.

ich

No. Really, no. In terms of exam results it's significantly better but as a n all round education for life it's a very long way from wonderful.

s

ons

.

Private schools turn out plenty of life failures. ISTR figures years ago th at show private education was much more likely to lead to homelessness in a dult life.

They mostly manage to weed out the worst teachers that state schools take o n, not always. Facilities are very much better.

at times, mostly not though

Free useful components are way easier to come by now. Anyone that wants the m can pick them up aplenty at no cost. There's still no shortage of 8-16 pi n ICs in consumer junk.

I've always very much suspected the crappy user interfaces we often see are mainly down to management not being willing to let engineering spend the t ime to get it good, time is money. As an engineer I can see easily what's w rong with domestic appliance UIs and how to fix them, but the reality is wh at sells is primarily cost.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr
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From what I've seen they tend to be dire, and the problem is not lack of funds but lack of competence at all levels.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

How would you change it?

Not that I've noticed. Some really good engineers have been a bit weird, but loads of regular employees were just as weird or weirder.

Education should be about learning real-world facts (which does include why Shakespeare's plays are remarkably good), not learning how to be a self-confident twit, or slavish follower of some cult or other.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Most "herd followers" would call "herd following" "just being an ordinary person." Which is precisely what many people want. Does that mean they're "bad people" for wanting that?

Not every person even wants to be a superstar engineer, brilliant doctor, famous performer, visionary artist, or President, even if they could. There are solid reasons that all that stuff is way more trouble than its worth also.

Reply to
bitrex

Agreed, but that doesn't change the point about the difficulty of finding outstanding engineers.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Also if you have a team of highly talented people who all want the top job it is pretty much like herding cats trying to get any teamwork out of them. Turnover ends up too high if they can see they won't get there.

You need a balance of completer finishers and drudges to have a balanced team. The geniuses who come up with radical new engineering solutions quickly get bored and looking at a new more interesting problem. Someone has to finish the job off once they have solved the really hard bit.

You need to be aware of your strengths and weaknesses and build a team that covers any gaps there may be. A lot of people do like routine work.

--
Regards, 
Martin Brown
Reply to
Martin Brown

Well, yeah, if most people were outstanding then outstanding would just be "average"!

"Welcome to Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average."

Reply to
bitrex

Very true.

The categories I find convenient are: - ideas man - critic - worker - finisher - communicator - chairman

Most people can be pigeonholed into one category as their primary "personality", but can also act well enough in a secondary category.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

Another reason that Google engineer's "manifesto" was absurd is that he keeps talking this and that about the qualities of "average women."

Google only hires around 1% of applicants of all demographics! It's much more selective than Harvard! What point would there be to say criticize the admissions process of Harvard and then talk about the general characteristics of C- students they're not even looking at?

Reply to
bitrex

I think there's also the unmentioned addendum "...at the price I want to pay."

I don't think it's actually that difficult to "find" them. In fact I bet they'd find you if the price was right. Want outstanding? Offer a million bucks a year and I bet outstanding will come running to you from all over the globe.

It is difficult to find great champagne for a beer budget, yeah. Not impossible, but it won't ever be easy.

Reply to
bitrex

Try changing the method by which you solicit them and see what happens. If your ads sound like what you're looking for is garbage-tier then you'll get garbage-tier.

Just post ads looking for experienced/senior engineers with say X number of years experience, the talented kids straight out of college don't give a shit what the "requirements" say, understand that all that verbage is mostly bullshit and will try to get their foot in the door anyway.

Reply to
bitrex

...and our *rottenest* high schools get re-branded as "Academies" in the hope that a change of image will improve grades (it doesn't of course, it's just Lefties trying to pull the wool over our eyes.)

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Reply to
Cursitor Doom

i remember EE lab from a long time ago.

I was a ham operator as a kid so lab was not an issue for me

the project was to build and test a two stage transistor audio amp from a schematic , it had a 22 uF coupling cap between the 2 stages. We had to req the parts out from the stockroom window.

Another group could not get their amp to work and no one even the prof could figure out what was wrong. All the DC voltages tested correctly.

He asked me to look at it and I immediately saw a teeny tiny orange disc cap marked 22 where the expected large size 22 uF electrolytic coupling cap should have been.

I just pointed to the cap and said, there's your problem.

A good engineer needs a good mix of book leaning and practical experience.

m
Reply to
makolber

Let's be real, my girlfriend is an English professor and the fact is most American college students in any discipline can't write worth a god damn.

Reading and writing is priority. A student who's a failure as an engineer but came out of school able to read and write well probably won't be a failure in the work world. A student who can't read or write well is f***ed.

Reply to
bitrex

Yep. IMO if women are in any way unsuited for engineering the primary reason isn't due to lower mechanical intelligence or more anxiety or etc. it's simply because most of the hotshot male engineers fell in love with the discipline at an early age and have been doing it forever.

I don't think that means women are intrinsically unsuited to be coders or engineers, it just means they treat it more like a "regular job" and not an obsessive "lifestyle choice." And just because someone treats a discipline like the latter and has a ton of practical experience doesn't necessarily mean that they're a great hire.

Reply to
bitrex

That is to say, the hotshots "on average" tend to be opinionated fanatics (as we see on display in this NG a lot of the time) and not great team players. Sometimes that's precisely what you want, and sometimes it's precisely what you don't.

Reply to
bitrex

You've got that completely arse-about-tit, unless you think that poisonous dwarf Michael Gove is a leftist.

In reality it is *conservatives* handing out money to their cronies.

Reply to
Tom Gardner

In the US, school means any learning institution. We have primary schools, middle school, high schools, night schools, law schools, medical schools, flying schools, welding schools. Colleges and universities are "secondary schools." You get a masters or doctorate from a graduate school.

"School" is one of those words that looks weird if you stare at it.

We have one private high school in San Francisco that charges something like $50K per year. The good part is that courses in electronics and welding are mandatory.

--
John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
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Reply to
John Larkin

No chemistry? That is one of the most useful things to know.

When I was a kid in Canada, we had Physics, Chemistry, Shop welding and tempering, and even typing classes.

Looks like your chidren are losing out.

Reply to
Steve Wilson

Reply to
bitrex

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