If D from BC were a plumber:

No. He is the lead. That is why the whole world is "getting the lead out". He is a loser in every industry.

I wonder why Mike Terrell cares?

Perhaps he's retreading all the old jokes we've made about idiots from Florida, and hopes we might think that he came up with them on his own?

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Ummm, for the record, the "idiots" are getting squeezed out by all the unchecked illegal immigration. Don't come here unless you speak fluent Spanish.

(That goes for you latins too!) :)

Speaking of plumbing..... I know better than to ask this question of a bunch of EE's, but....

In my shower, hot's on left, cold's on right, drain on floor. So far, so good.

HOWEVER, the water temperature regulation is for shit. (Note: Not related to other water use in the house. The shower can be the only thing on.)

If I turn the hot on and let it run, then add in some cold by turning the cold handle, sometime nothing much happens. Occasionally, it cools down just like you would expect. But not always.

Other times, you can turn the hot completely off, turn up the cold, and the damn thing stays HOT (sometimes gets even HOTTER) for a lot longer than you would expect. Say, 30 to 45 seconds sometimes???

BUT, if you turn the cold off, and right back on, it's pretty much cold right away (less than 5 seconds).

From experience elsewhere on the property, I'm convinced this house was built by an idiot contractor. But for the life of me I can't explain this shower thing.

And yes, sometimes turning the cold water on really does makes the water coming out of the showerhead hotter. It's a complete mystery to me what could possibly be going on.... I'm sure there's a very logical explanation for this behavior, but I'll be damned if I know what it is...!!!

Anyone got any ideas?

Two possibilities. First, the hot and cold line for the shower may be adjacent, so the cold line is slowly heated to the same temp as the hot line. then, when you run the hot line, it gets a little cooler as the tank goes down, but the cold is still the same temp.

OR

It is a pressure thing. There is a constriction in the cold line, and it has lower pressure than the hot line. You have to really crank the cold, and really diminish the hot to get the pressures equalized.

I once was in an apartment that had a hot water circulation pump. Unfortunately, we were directly above the tank, and only had a single handle shower control. Hot had several pounds of extra pressure over cold, so if you didn't want a HOT shower, you were pretty much out of luck, and I hated baths...

Charlie

(...)

I would check your thermostatic control valve. Sounds like it is installed backwards.

--Winston

The one-lever mixing valves don't even have to be installed backwards. If the handle is mounted on the wrong side of the stop they'll operate backwards. DAMHIKT.

If D from BC were a plumber he'd still be a lousy electronic designer, but at least he'd have an excuse!

RogerN

First, make sure you have adequate system pressure and not too much pressure drop. You could have some restriction in the system that will cause funny behavior.

I'm assuming this is a two valve setup. Others have suggested improperly installed single handle controls, thermostatic valves (rare in the USA, common in Europe).

If its two valves, consider rebuilding them with better quality components. Some cheap valve seats will swell at higher temperatures and cause the flow to drop. The feedback between the hot and cold flow setting can cause weird stuff to happen.

He'd have an excuse to be full of shit. OTOH, he'd be making an honest living for once.

At work I have friends that are Atheist, Christian, and unknown other beliefs. I don't feel the need to make fun of others beliefs or argue with them, we just get along and do our best to get our job done, helping each other as needed. For some reason DfromBC feels the need to start posts to criticize others beliefs when he hasn't demonstrated any sign of superior intelligence, the opposite actually, all he accomplishes is to show his ignorance and lack of understanding.

RogerN

Yep. That's why I finally put "D from BC" into my permanent kill-file. ...Jim Thompson

Shit house plumbing.

Should be a 3/4" feed to the shower, and the shower NEEDs to have the regulator put back in it, dumbass. You cannot expect a high rate shower to be able to not show a usage transient elsewhere in the house. You should use a regulator that lets you run the shower at full pressure (for that rate), but at a limited flow rate. Then a transient elsewhere in the house will not adversely affect the shower temp... as much.

Then, feed the toilet, kitchen, etc with 1/2" or a smaller tap from a half inch feed for the toilet. Make sure the fill rate isn't too great on it either.

I like my showers hot and hotter, so when the apartment upstairs flushes, I twirl in the 130 degree shower that I normally use at 120 degrees anyway. Since cold is the most commonly turned on tap, I know exactly what to expect. If I can handle that, you should be able to handle the transition yours makes... UNLESS you was dumb and removed the restrictor in the shower head.

Nobody can do dishes in my dishwater either. I take a while to get started.

My hands are cleaner than a freshly scrubbed surgeon's... usually.

When I am in Usenet, they are decidedly less clean.

That is silly. To heat the cold water pipe's water, said water would have to be stationary.

Otherwise, the water temp flowing in the pipe RULES against any peripheral heating.

A completely silly suggestion.

So, IF the hot water is the ONLY water on for a LONG enough time to heat a siamesed pipe's water (A VERY LONG TIME), THEN said water would be warm or hot, but that would end IMMEDIATELY, once the water in that pipe is turned on. If the hot water is not ran constant, it too will cool to ambient temps.

A totally false claim you have made there.

No. Both pipes have the same pressure. Hot water gets used less from a FLOW standpoint because less is needed to arrive at the desired operating temperature.

All the pipes in your house all have the same pressure behind them.

Pressures in a given pipe can be reduced, but only by way of FLOW elsewhere in the system.

Yes, it is a two valve setup -- at least there are separate knobs for Hot and Cold.

I don't think it's hooked up backwards, because.... First thing in the morning, if I turn on the Hot, hot comes out (eventually, takes a minute to warm up, as expected) And if first thing, I turn on the Cold, then cold comes out.

It does seem like the cold supply pipes are getting heated up, and then, if I crack open the cold, all the heat comes out in the form of hotter water. And will continue to do so, even if I turn the hot water almost all the way off, and crank up the cold as far as it will go.. It is amazing how LONG it takes for the cold to have any effect. I mean, literally, 30-45 seconds sometimes.

Yet -- If I turn off both, (while this is happening, of course), and crank on only the Cold, it will cool down immediately. (< 5 seconds).

I have no idea. (But then, I'm an EE, not a plumber!!)

Having read the replies here, I'm wondering if the pipes are fastened together (adjacent) behind the wall, and the cold pipes are heating up too much from flow in the hot pipe. And, I'm starting to think I "might" have one of those thermostatic valves, but still doubt it. (But with this place.... you never know!)

It's not so bad that I want to tear apart the shower tiles to "fix" it. In fact, I would estimate this problem rears its head maybe 10% - 20% of the time, so I could just live with it. I'm more curious to discover what could cause this behavior, as it is completely counter-intuitive (to someone who is not a plumber!!)

The house was built in the late-50's (1958?), so clogged pipes are a definite possibility. (Though that said, I'm sure the prior owner was a D-I-Y Nightmare.)

he

I think you're reading more into my post than is actually there. So, please allow me to correct any misunderstanding.

I haven't done anything to the plumbing. (Well, not yet anyway...) At this point, I'm trying to diagnose what is going on. Most likely, the former homeowner f^cked something up. It's quite clear from other things I've had to fix that he considered himself Bob Villa personified. (Which he was not.)

Either way, I'm not going to spend $20,000 re-doing pipes in the slab. Whatever diameter the pipes are, I'll have to live with it. Unless it truly gets to the point where I can't live with it -- and I'm a long way from there. I'd move first.

-mpm

ld

That was my thinking exactly!! Yet, the shower does indeed behave as I have indicated.

The best way I can describe it (as an EE), is that the shower seems to have this weird hysterisis curve on the hot water side. But, you can reset the whole system by turning the water completely off (hot and cold), and just run cold. Fixes the problem in just a few seconds.

However, leave either water running, and it will take 30-45 seconds (at least) to stabilize. EVEN if you turn the hot to a trickle (valve barely open), with cold on full blast (valve all the way open).

Maybe the valves are crap? But each one individually seem to work just as you would expect. I don't know if any pressure or flow restrictors were ever present, or were later removed. How can I tell? To me, it's looks just a standard type showerhead sticking out of the wall.

om a

Just to clarify for anyone who might help, here.... I can be the only one home - with no other water being used (not even the icemaker), and this problem can still occur. It does not happen all the time, but when it does (or doesn't), it does not appear to be related to any water use elsewhere in the house. Mine is a single-story home on a private lot. City water & sewer. (Not an apartment or multi-family anything.)