Not that I recall.. I said it though. Why? Because one said the cap was a start cap, which it is not, and then you claimed that the 5 mf was the run cap, and the 60 mf was a start cap. Neither statement was correct. And we don't want no incorrectness on this here interweb, now do we. :)
So, you've never seen a split phase motor with two capacitors?
That is not what he has. Why would I care about obtuse examples that have nothing to do with what he has?
Obtuse? How do you know what he has, if you haven't seen the hardware? Two capacitor motors aren't obtuse. Lots of compressor motors use them.
I know *exactly* what he has. He told us in the first post. I Quote..
"I have a 4 ton Carrier A/C that the original GE cap (Dual 60uF/5uF 440VAC)"
And for the usual residential type condensing unit, yes, a compressor motor with two run caps would be quite obtuse. Like a pretty much zero chance of seeing one.
Almost all modern compressor motors use a single run cap, and if starting is an issue, they add a start kit, which is a start cap with a potential relay. Or they can slap a single piece start kit with a start cap and a S/S relay built on top. Not two run caps!
None of the usual fan motors in a modern condensing unit use two run caps. Zero. None. Nada.
I don't know where you get your information, and I really don't care. I've been working on air conditioners since 1977. Only for a couple of years in the late 80's, when I owned a different business, did I take a break from working on air conditioners, from the overall time period 1977 until 2012.
I currently work on air conditioners, and I change out so many caps that's it's almost become a new sideline due to the pathetic quality of caps in the last few years. I make a lot of money due to these cheap ass caps. :) Easy money my man, very easy money... :)
I've been in business long enough to remember when you rarely saw bad caps. I change some poor bastards, or bastardette, if they don't have hairy legs, blown out A/C cap almost every single freakin day!!! Some days, more than one case. I change so many that I have to keep a complete stock of every common value on the truck to avoid making store runs, and to make sure I have one when it's 8:39 in the PM and after store hours. How many A/C caps do you change out a week?
Why do you insist on humping my legs over silly ass A/C caps? Sometimes when I'm in some bastards backyard changing an A/C cap, dogs try to do that... :/ I think from now on, I'll ask them.. Hey doggy! are you happy to see me, or is your name Michael A. Terrell?
Where did I say the fan did?
Motor caps see rough service. Caps are always a weak link in circuits. There are a hell of a lot more A/C systems these days and a lot are sized to be barely adequate, so the compressors run harder than one than one that can handle the load. The thing that kills the capacitors is heat. They are mounted next to the compressor, inside the hottest point in the system. Designs that could be a lot better, but aren't.
Easy money my man, very easy money... :)
Typical HVAC attitude. My dad had his central fail recently. The SOB he called wire tied the wires to the fan to the grill. The idiots that installed the unit here set it on a tree stump. SO far, I've used
3/4 ton of marble chips to level it. They change their name about every six months, so you can't track them down. HVAC are the biggest bunch of thieves I've ever had the misfortune to work with. The last round was on a new college campus where I was installing the commercial fire alarms. Eight systems in two equipment rooms, and they couldn't even set them where they were told to. They were against the back wall, where it would be nearly impossible to service, and they tried to do the electrical work themselves on a state job. The state required duct detectors on all eight systems, but I was told they would murder me if I touched the ductwork. The general contractor and architectural firm had to intervene and tell them that they would be responsible for all fees for work that wasn't completed on time. They were only there about five hours a day, and lazy SOBs.I had one local company call me 17 times in one day to offer me 'A special rate on my central A/C'. I didn't have A/C and they were tying up my business phone so I told them that I would call a bunch of retirees and have them call about quotes, or to ask endless questions to tie up their phone line if they called me again.
When was that? I've seen them since the '60s.
No different than the old tube type TV days. The difference was that some of them exploded and blew the back off the set or blew a hole in it. The inside of the set was full of aluminum foil, shredded paper and oil.
So you carry some stock. What repair business doesn't? We used to stock over 2000 different parts on our TV service trucks. When I did industrial electronics I carried complete panels to get customers back on line in a hurry. If the on site repair would take too long, I offered a fixed rate exchange.
I no longer work on motor controls other than my own. I'm retired, but still work on some computers as a hobby. How many low ESR caps do you change on computer motherboards each day? They don't plug in, and you can't use a pair of rusty Klein pliers to hammer them into place.
Yawn. Typical response from your trade. Bad attitude and a fake screen name.
No, a typical response to a person that repeatedly tries to hump my legs. All I said to the other poster was that it was not a start cap, but actually a run cap, and that caps in general are cheap and of poor quality. And you seem to have some problem, and keep asking me idiotic questions about parts that don't exist for the persons unit.
You don't know me for jack, and you have no idea what the quality of my work is. Almost everyone I do work for calls me back, and I get many referrals. I have enough work just from existing customers that know us, I don't have to advertise. And my prices to change a cap are probably among the lowest in this city. I know some companies that charge ridiculous prices. We don't. It's still good money being it takes about 3 minutes to do. All of the new equipment I install is permitted and inspected by the city, and trust me, if something is not kosher, they will let you know about it.
You are the one with the bad attitude. You obviously got bent over by some unscrupulous moron HVAC tech, and you think everyone operates that way. I'm sure you could also say the same thing about certain TV techs too.. Fake screen name? Chortle.. You kill me, you really do. :|
Uh-huh, sounds like the internal interrupter opened just in time: "- U.L. registered internal current interrupter designed to disconnect the capacitor element if excessive pressure develops inside casing from misapplication"
You're throwing good money after bad with those caps. Purchase a separate 5UF for the fan, but then /maybe/ get a 'hard start kit' for the compressor start cap.
Do that hard start caps replace the 60uF compressor run cap or go in parallel with it until the compressor starts then drops out?
I've heard some negative pres about kickstart caps causing more problems than they fix. Do you have experience with these lasting long term?
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They replace the start capacitor. Your problem is the excessive heat down t= here making that compressor start up against 500 psi internal pressures. Th= is explains why the caps blow during the heat waves. The compressor is prob= ably tripping out on overload until the condenser fan air can bring the pre= ssure down.I would go one step further and add a time delay relay between t= he thermostat and the contactor. The time delay relay delays powering the c= ontactor for a full 5 minutes. Then an aux relay takes the t-stat voltage a= nd turns on the condenser fan immediately. This is a common technique used = in extreme conditions like rooftop units and trailer a/c's. When you do the= rewire use their 10000V HV wire or whatever it is.
Please view in a fixed-width font such as Courier.
. . . . . . . . +---------+ +---------+ . | | | cndnsr | . Tstat>--+-----| aux rly |------+ fan | . | | | | | . | +---------+ +---------+ . | . | . | +----------+ . | | 5 min | +-----------+ +----------+ . | | | | | | | . -----+ delay +----| contactor |-----| cmprssr | . | | | | | | . | on make | +-----------+ +----------+ . | | . +----------+ . . .
Also, if the thermostat doesn't do it already, a similar "remain on for 5 minutes" relay is a great idea for the ventilation fan itself.
Tim
-- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website:
They replace the start capacitor. Your problem is the excessive heat down there making that compressor start up against 500 psi internal pressures. This explains why the caps blow during the heat waves. The compressor is probably tripping out on overload until the condenser fan air can bring the pressure down.I would go one step further and add a time delay relay between the thermostat and the contactor. The time delay relay delays powering the contactor for a full 5 minutes. Then an aux relay takes the t-stat voltage and turns on the condenser fan immediately. This is a common technique used in extreme conditions like rooftop units and trailer a/c's. When you do the rewire use their 10000V HV wire or whatever it is.
Please view in a fixed-width font such as Courier.
. . . . . . . . +---------+ +---------+ . | | | cndnsr | . Tstat>--+-----| aux rly |------+ fan | . | | | | | . | +---------+ +---------+ . | . | . | +----------+ . | | 5 min | +-----------+ +----------+ . | | | | | | | . -----+ delay +----| contactor |-----| cmprssr | . | | | | | | . | on make | +-----------+ +----------+ . | | . +----------+ . . .
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The delay-on-make delays the application of the input voltage to the output= for the specified time interval, and thereafter remains on indefinitely as= long as the input voltage is present. The output voltage is removed instan= tly with the input voltage. Not sure about the effect of a 5 minute run-on = for an A/C evaporator fan, have never seen it applied, which doesn't mean i= t doesn't exist. If there is a problem with liquid refrigerant accumulation= in the evaporator, it is usually handle by an inline device called an accu= mulator of all names :-), a standard component for automotive A/C. Medium t= emperature refrigeration, such as walk-in coolers, do use fan run-on the ev= aporator to eliminate frost build-up.
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My suggestion assumes you haven't done something artistic like enclose your= outdoor unit with an air-obstructing fence/lattice or located it underneat= h a deck, or something careless like clogged your condenser fins with grass= clippings or something like that.
Myself, I do not recommend using a hard start kit unless you actually need a hard start kit. IE: expansion valve instead of flow rater, has trouble starting, etc. If it doesn't need one, I don't use them. I've got many condensing units I've installed around town that have been in service for 15-25 years. I was just on a call the other day to change a combo run cap on a unit I installed 19 years ago. It's never had a hard start kit and still runs like a champ.
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