How does ethernet work when disconnected and reconnected

Hi

I have a problem with a Ethernet PHY that makes too much noise. We are digging into the problem, iterating on the very poor layout done, but the client is looking for a fix right now with now HW changes.

The problem comes from the RMII communication to the PHY. Seems a 25MHz clock is feeding the PHY (LAN8742), which then in turn creates a 50MHz clock feeding back to the STM32 MAC.

If I remove the clock, the problem is gone. Problem is a radiated emissions +100MHz, so quasipeak detection is used in final measurements.

So have been trying to slow it down, and other tricks but thought about this solution:

Initiate the PHY as normal and let the PHY/MAC get an IP address.

Then disconnect the PHY for let's say 500ms, by removing the 25MHz clock. After 500ms, activate the clock again.

That would possibly reduce the emissions by 3-4dB due to the quasipeak detector.

But, can an ethernet connection work like this?

How does the line react, will it do preamble communication again, or will it just work again (some packets might be lost, but we can re-transmit those)?

I know from earlier measurements on an ethernet line that it is active all the time even though no data is send.

Cheers

Klaus

Reply to
Klaus Kragelund
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The data clock is always active, at least the one for data out. But why the RMII clock, is it not like the MII clock I am familiar with? It is only used to set the PHY up. Thankfully have not had to wrestle a non-working PHY recently, typically because of tqfp soldering defects - and once because I was plugging a network cable which was connected to nothing at the other edn, time and time again after resoldering... But I am pretty sure the MII clock can safely be stopped after configuring the PHY.

Reply to
Dimiter_Popoff

lørdag den 7. oktober 2023 kl. 13.06.09 UTC+2 skrev Klaus Kragelund:

it it the 25MHz or the 50MHz that's the problem?

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

It's a harmonic. I am working on the fix, for the next revision of the board. I was just wondering if we could use a SW fix for now...

Reply to
Klaus Kragelund

but is it the 25MHz from the MAC or the 50MHz from the PHY that causes the problem? I believe the 50MHz can be turned off

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

YEs, you are right. Seems that the 50MHz clock out is just a feature, not needed for operation of the device. I will check with the SW guys, if they use that for anything, maybe they feed it back for a reason.

Reply to
Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund

Sounds from your experiment that it might be possible to have some kind of working connection, maybe with some added encapsulation to retransmit missed packets

Reply to
Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund

It may be worth checking the quality of the patch cable that was used for EMC testing. I once had a test failure that was fixed simply by substituting the patch cable (which was cat5e unshielded.).

John

Reply to
John Walliker

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