Ground resistance penetration

I am trying to take 4-terminal ground resistance measurements in such a way as to distinguish between shallow and deep anomalies. The basic idea is shown at:

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By spacing the electrodes further apart, the depth of penetration is increased. In theory, by comparing the 'short' spacing reading with the 'long' one (proportionately weighted), the differences due to the deeper penetration should be measurable. (There ought not to be a difference if the ground is entirely homogenous, so anomalies will indicate the presence of deeply buried objects.)

In practice the system is made a lot easier if five electrodes are used, with the connections being changed as appropriate:

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However, this raises a question: If the current path is the same for both the 'short' and 'long' readings, the sum of the short readings ought to equal the long one as long as the electrodes aren't disturbed when changing over the connections. The current doesn't know where the voltage is going to be measured and the rule of summation of voltages should apply. In practice this does not happen and there is usually a difference.

I have not yet tried exchanging the current and voltage leads to give different short and long current paths with fixed voltage measurement. One theory says this should give a different current penetration and show up deeply buried objects - but the the theory of reprocity suggests that there should be no overall difference between this and the previous set-up.

I'm getting in a tangle with this, is there someone who can see the wood for the trees and explain what is really going on?

[All measurements were made with A.C. at about 850c/s to avoid electrode polarisation. The current was around 60mA with a bridge-type measurement system to balance out variation in the current and a synchronous detector to reject mains hum. Voltmeter input impedance was around 9 Megohms with screened electrode leads using bootstrapped screens to avoid capacitance effects]
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~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ 
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Reply to
Adrian Tuddenham
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In addition to the path resistance, there are at least two effects that will give rise to differences: surface resistance of the oxide layer on the ground rods, and spreading resistance. Those will look like an additional resistance in series with each tap. As a SWAG you might take the end-to-end resistance, subtract the sum of the N individual section resistances, and divide by N-1. (That's counting N sections, N+1 ground rods.)

That won't give the right answer if the current paths aren't nearly the same, of course.

I recently built a transcutaneous spectrometer that needed careful control of the source/detector spacing to trade off penetration depth vs. optical efficiency. Those sorts of things are always hard to do really well, because you're fighting Laplace's equation, and that makes it exponentially hard as you go deeper.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
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ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
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hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
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Reply to
Phil Hobbs

You probably know this, but searching on 'geophysics electrical resistivity' will bring up a host of information.

I did a lot of this a long time ago. Thousands of readings in fields on a grid, then enter it into the PDP11 for plotting. To be honest, it seldom showed anything of interest, although we once detected a buried barbed-wire fence. At least it showed the technique worked to some extent.

We were mostly looking for solution cavities, and often the survey would be a small part of some larger site investigation contract.

Cheers

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Syd
Reply to
Syd Rumpo

Have I misunderstood something?

The current electrodes are driven from a more-or-less constant current source and the voltage electrodes are monitored by a high impedance measurement system. How would a small change in the resistance of the electrode surfaces (or even quite a large one) make any significant difference to a 4-terminal measurement?

The spreading resistance is a different matter. Could you give me a bit more information about that please?

(To give some idea of the results: with electrodes about 1ft deep and

1ft apart, the soil resistance is usually somewhere between 200 ohms and 2k.)
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~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ 
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) 
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Reply to
Adrian Tuddenham

You might also try searching on hydrology earth resistance. I had a neig hbor who was a hydrologist and he had a program in basic to take earth res istance measurements and come up with a model of how layers of earth at dif ferent resistances would produce those results.

The same type of measurements are used to determine if lightning protection system are properly grounded. Biddle makes meters for doing this. So you might search on Biddle too. BiddleMegger.com has some downloadable softwa re relating to this.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

PBC error. (Posted Before Coffee)

The spreading resistance is just an expression for the fact that the current can't really be following the same paths in the two sets of measurements. It has to spread out from the driven posts, more or less radially at first, just like the external field from a long skinny horseshoe magnet and for the same reason. (Laplace's equation applies to both, for quasistatic fields in a source-free region.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

A client of mine, Michael Portmann, of Sentek, Adelaide, used to lurk here.

Sentek is a company that makes soil moisture measurement equipment. I designed a custom chip for them 4-5 years ago.

If Michael is still around, maybe he'll weigh in with some advice... or sell you an instrument >:-} ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
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Reply to
Jim Thompson

About thirty plus years ago I did a grid pattern in a very large excavation dug for a garbage dump. The idea was to make sure there was a thick continuous clay layer across the bottom of the excavation. This was my first time in the field doing this type of measurement. When I ran into an area that had substantially different measurements then the rest of the hole, I did a second set of measurements and recorded them on a separate log. A few weeks after turning in all the information I ask the person in charge of the job what they did with the problem area. He hesitated a bit and then said we dug out the area and refilled it with clay. To this day, I think they changed my records and ignored the measurement anomaly. Somebodies groundwater may be polluted today because of that.

Mike

Reply to
amdx

Its an interesting problem. The solution depends on how the resistivity affects the shape of the equipotential 'surfaces' in the ground.

A couple of things to consider: Not just moving the four electrodes closer or further apart, but with differing relative spacings. Also, making some voltage measurements at right angles to the injected current axis.

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Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com 
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Paul Hovnanian P.E.

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