"fetishization of IQ"

So the sign in the car rental place says you need a college degree to apply for a job there.

But it's also because the government makes it hard to fire anyone without a lawsuit, so they have to be more careful whom they hire.

Reply to
Tom Del Rosso
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Oh, yes indeed!

The last thing you want is a surgeon with a Haynes manual[1] in one hand.

Or, for that matter, a surgeon who is improving his CV.

[1] step-by-step photographs of how to repair cars,
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Reply to
Tom Gardner

Fascinating. I'm missing something or there's something wonky about that article- LTS SQUID magnetometers have noise floors in the fT range, so 6 orders of magnitude better, and I believe they can work up into the MHz with direct-coupled controllers. Granted that requires

4.2K rather than 77K but that's not that difficult. I believe the limitation is knowledge of the physical orientation in the external field rather than sensitivity of the probe itself.

I'd like to know more though, if you have any pointers.

--sp

--
Best regards,  
Spehro Pefhany 
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition:            http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Cathy Foley won awards for this work:

The article abstract is here. $33 gets you a copy: . I don't know enough of the physics to fully understand even the abstract, but they quote results at 30MHz.

Clifford Heath.

Reply to
Clifford Heath

Thanks, Clifford. I'll hit up someone with university access.

Seems like an interesting advance- not much has been done with SQUIDs in the last decade or two- there are few practical applications that can justify a device that needy.

--sp

--
Best regards,  
Spehro Pefhany 
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition:            http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

of

isn't true in more egalitarian countries (with Scandinavia having the most egalitarian cuountries.

her was a doctor. There is a distinction between poverty and not being weal thy. If your parents had enough money to feed you well, and to live in a su burb where the schools were good, you didn't start poor. They might not giv e you enough money to buy a house when you grow up (which is what wealthy p arents do), but they did give you a lot, and a lot more that is given to th e kids who grow up in actual poverty.

er

That's pretty ironic coming from someone who wants the State to micromanage people's lives & choices.

Grandpa had a camera, so the Japanese arrested him as a spy.

You've never heard me say any such thing.

You're the one saying it--you're gonna save everyone with subsidies and perfect politicians wielding centralized power, not-your-property, and policies that have been objectively disastrous over the last fifty years.

What 'liberal' corpuscle requires turning every question of principles of political philosophy--questions of what really leads to the common good--into personal assaults?

Do you not care whether things work? Apparently not.

I've put out some basic principles, like the Walmart effect of federal subsidies depressing prevailing wages.

And instead of rational discussion I get misdirected, blind hate. How 'liberal.'

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

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oor. > > >>> They might not give you enough money to buy a house when you g row up

d a > > >>> lot more that is given to the kids who grow up in actual povert y.

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Not what bitrex actually advocates, nor what any modern socialist advocates . I'm not quite sure what form you might think that the the micromanagement w ould take, and you probably won't tell us. It sounds more like boiler-plate right-wing rhetoric than anything concrete.

Seems reasonable.

No. But some Christian missionaries did peddle that line.

Scandinavia and Germany are doing fine. The US is bit of mess in comparison .

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most_Always_Do_Better

Fifty years is a bit of an odd time window. It takes us back to 1966.

The US started going down the tubes when Reagan came to power, which was in 1980. Sweden's social democracy is still a work in progress, and shifted t o being rather more free-market friendly after 1980 too.

The policies which have been objectively disastrous were all behind the Iro n Curtain which came down in 1990, twenty-five years ago. They weren't soci alist - despite what the Union of the Soviet Socialist Republics claimed - and nobody - certainly not Bernie Sanders or bitrex - is advocating copying what they did.

The fact that you seem to think that socialist=communist, and can't be we aned off the idea, does generate irritation amongst the better informed.

You certainly don't seem to. You are besotted with the US constitution, whi ch doesn't work at all well.

Not that I've noticed. You do have positively Reaganesque enthusiasm for vo odoo economics, and post links to organisations financed by the Koch brothe rs, who do seem to be rather weak on basic principles (beyond making themse lves richer, of course).

Anybody who posts links published by a wholly owned subsidiaries of the Joh n Birch Society has to expect a certain amount of disapprobation.

Your grandfather suffered for his (marginally more respectable) principles, and you are going to have to suffer for yours.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

If you mean the college should give them some kind of trade courses as a substitute at no additional charge, that would make sense. From a business standpoint it's the same as a restaurant substituting for something you can't eat.

But if K-12 wasn't so dumbed down those kids wouldn't have to go to college in the first place. They didn't in the past.

And most of the changes to the entire US educational system in the past

50 years were brought on directly or indirectly by the students who thought they knew better than anyone over 30, and the fools in charge who let them do it.
Reply to
Tom Del Rosso

If you view IQ in the simple light of measuring the ability of people to qu ickly make associations and correlations then it is extremely useful to one 's success in life. If a person has a high IQ then they make quick associat ions that tend to be correct and they can make quicker judgments and quicke r decisions. The ability to make decisions that are based on good correlati ons and good associations is probably the best predictor for success in lif e. IQ tests do a fairly good job of measuring people's abilities to make qu ick associations and correlations.

Reply to
bulegoge

eople/485618/

How could they do that? Universities aren't set up to offer trade courses, and most students drop out because they aren't motivated to do enough work to master their courses. Closer supervision and more one-on-one teaching co uld help there but that's a lot more expensive, and university teachers are n't cheap, and don't sign on to do close supervision.

r

Nothing like it.

The proportion of adults getting university degrees has gone up a lot. The number of jobs that don't need some kind of tertiary education has gone dow n a lot. A lot of jobs that people used to do have been taken over by machi nes and computers, and the new jobs that have replaced them need more train ing.

About half the people who just make it into university emerge with degrees, and there's nothing to suggest that their degrees are worth any less than those awarded to people got into university with a comfortable margin (and nearly half of them don't complete either).

The top students going into universities do have a 95% completion rate, but there are nowhere near enough of them to satisfy the demand for university graduates.

An implausible claim. The students have got window-dressing concessions fro m time to time, but US university education hasn't change much, and still d oesn't look wildly different from anybody else's.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

Presumably it is not possible to increase one's IQ much above what one is born with. However, I can assure you from personal experience that it is possible to decrease one's IQ through either self-suppression of intellect or medical conditions.

Intelligence (IQ etc) is a measure of one's potential. It is not a guarantee that this potential will ever be realized. Dumb people lack some abilities. Stupid people might have considerable intelligence, but lack the ability to use it. It's a find distinction often lost in such discussions.

Oh, it's worse than that. In computing and many technical areas, there exists a plague of certification and registration exams. Survivors of these exams wave their certificates around as much as anyone with a college degree or advanced studies course diploma. I've seen cubicles literally wallpapered with such certifications, often in layers because they often must be renewed regularly lest the certificate holder lapse into overnight incompetence. Like college degrees, they were originally meant to identify the holder as someone who understands some task. Instead, it's being used as a ticket to obtaining employment mostly because personnel departments lack effective and efficient ways of sifting through the mountains of applications that most job postings generate.

Fortunately, I've never seen anyone post their IQ test results among their diplomas and certificates, but that can change.

They do that after about 2 years and more so just before graduation. That's when a student becomes an investment and the college would look bad if it began ejecting students in their senior year. When I entered college, I sat in a large lecture hall, where the speaker told us to look to your left, and look to your right. One of those won't be there next year. He was right. The problem is that many prospective college students simply don't have what it takes to survive 4 to 6 years and graduate. It doesn't seem to be a lack of intelligence that causes the problem. It's more like lack of money, military service, poor home life, pregnancy, and peer pressure.

It is also possible to compensate for lack of adequate intelligence in both skool and work. In skool, it's called studying. The smart students, with good visualization and memorization skills, study much less than the lower intelligence plodders, who are forced to study constantly and repetitiously in order to absorb the topic matter. On the job, this manifests itself in someone taking longer to do a task than someone who can do the same thing will less effort. I once hired two low IQ technicians, who would take about four times longer to do things than what I expected. I tolerated this because they rarely made a mistake and did things without any drama.

I watched what happened when one company tried to cut costs by hiring not-so-smart engineers and designers based on the alleged increased productivity delivered by a CAD/CAM system. Suffice to say that it failed for multiple reasons.

I subscribe to the pyramid theory of engineering because I've seen it work. At the top is the principal engineer. High IQ, very intelligent, very creative, and rather expensive. Every company has one, who is the primary source of inspiration and enlightenment when stuck on a problem. Under this one engineer is an organizationally pyramid of lesser engineers and support people, who's primary tasks are to make the ideas of the principal engineer a reality. A company can survive quite nicely on these lesser engineers, but if the principal ever leaves or becomes ineffective, the pyramid will begin to collapse.

I would probably continue with a rant on why working with smart people and primadonnas is a pain in the posterior, but I scheduled two appointments at the same time and need to untangle the mess I've created.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

quickly make associations and correlations then it is extremely useful to o ne's success in life. If a person has a high IQ then they make quick associ ations that tend to be correct and they can make quicker judgments and quic ker decisions. The ability to make decisions that are based on good correla tions and good associations is probably the best predictor for success in l ife. IQ tests do a fairly good job of measuring people's abilities to make quick associations and correlations.

Sadly, that's not a sensible way of viewing IQ. There isn't any single abil ity to make associations and correlations.

Information gets into the brain through a variety of routes,and gets proces sed in the brain in a variety of ways and associated with various different forms of existing knowledge.

IQ is what gets measured by IQ tests, and different people do well on diff erent bits of IQ tests.

There's definitely not a single process involved that's better in some peop le than others, but a whole host of different processes that are exercised in different ways by different sorts of questions, and two people with the same IQ can be clever in very different ways. Mensa exists to remind us tha t some people who do well on IQ tests can be decidedly unremarkable.

Daniel Kahneman got a Nobel Prize - in Economics - for pointing out that we all have two systems for making decisions

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one quick, dirty and intuitive, and the other, slower process of working st uff out step by step. You aren't going to have the same IQ when tested on " fast" thinking as when tested on "slow" thinking.

IQ is a handy rough measure when you haven't got time to assess people prop erly, but it is very rough indeed - it was designed for speed rather than p recision.

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Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply to
bill.sloman

My wife has a masters, and had to do an unpaid clinical fellowship year, and has to acquire some number of CEUs per year to keep her license; she has to be certified both by the state and by ASHA to practice.

As an engineer, I need no certificates, no degrees, no license, no ongoing education, and I make more than she does.

And he was cruel.

The problem is that many

Well, that was dumb!

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

Remember that the Stanford-Binet was first designed ( or used) to figure out who carries the radio in fire teams around WWII.

College used to be where the weird bookish kids or the scion of people with a lot of money went. Remember that many of the top names in historical physics frequently had trouble even finding work.

I suppose because an SAT score looks objective.

It's exploitative. It's now to the point where some 'universities' are losing their accreditation ( or something ) because of the sheer debt load of the students.

It's just another bubble.

I hold to Arnold Kling's theory that people from the left are mainly concerned about the broad application of the concept of exploitation. This is a blind spot.

It takes a certain kind of smart. So does plumbing.

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Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

Yes!

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

Stephen Jay Gould wrote an interesting history behind "IQ": _The Mismeasure of Man_. It's old now (1981), but probably still worth reading.

Reply to
Frank Miles

I went to what used to be a "Normal School" - a teaching college - teaching teachers. Compared to other peoples' experience, I'd recommend that again. You had a snowball's chance of learning something.

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Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

I think if you have a gift for willingly suspending disbelief about abstraction long enough to "fake it until you make it", the system will reward that for you.

I really think that's all there is to it, outside of people who have eidetic memory.

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Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

Corporate relocation has probably done more to damage families than the welfare state.

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Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

This is ( in the aggregate, macroeconomic sense of it ) a very real problem, though. We can sort of do a half-made natural experiment by contrasting the US and Japan or China.

If everybody "saves too much" ( as was done during the Depression because arbitraging cash under a mattress made economic sense ) then there will likely be a move closer to deflation.

In a perfect world, deflation wouldn't be a problem, but we use debt for money creation and deflation can cause a ... negatively-signed positive feedback loop that nulls to some lower level than we'd prefer.

That's the real justification for this sort of spending. People who lived during the Depression knew this and weren't offended by it all that much.

IMO, the real problem is that we don't correctly identify and tax rent-seeking behavior. We tax labor instead.

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Les Cargill
Reply to
Les Cargill

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