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Fanless or near fanless PC 2014 ? (sub 5 watts)

Hello,

This processor has caught my eye, it's a sub 5 watt processor from intel, it has latest features and even a graphics chip inside of it ?!

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This reminds me of the 80486 chip which also didn't have a heatsink or a fan.

I checked my pentium 166, it still came with a heatsink and a fan.

I very much like the idea of a chip without a fan. A heatsink could still be possible though.

So perhaps a slightly hotter chip is still possible for a PC design.

I wonder: does this core m chip come with a passive heatsink for laptop, and what about pc/desktop ?

There was mention of a docking system with fan to increase performance ? How so ? Can the chip run faster ? Does it use thermal throttling ?

Anyway, using such a chip for a fanless or nearly fanless PC would also require other components without a fan.

My main worry would be the motherboard which could also have a tiny little shitty noisy fan which would ruin the design.

Other points of worry are harddisks, though these don't seem to generate that much heat.

And ram chips... not sure what there tdp would be.

The 80486 PC did come with a fan in the power supply... not sure why that fan was there... probably too cool the power supply itself but possibly also for some airflow through case otherwise temperature may rise... which seems somewhat logical.

So perhaps truely fanless system not possible, except maybe with conducting the heat away via heatsinks outside of case.

I am very much interested in a fanless PC desktop design, but it has to be somewhat powerfull at running applications/games.

So I have some questions about this core m chip:

  1. How does it compare to an AMD X2 3800+ dual core chip from 2006 ? ;) (manufactured in 2001?!)

Is core M slower, equal or faster than this AMD chip ?

  1. Is core M capable of running company of heroes 2 at some decent graphics settings and frame rate ? that would be nice ! ;) (at least company of heroes 1 can be considered best game of all time, not yet sure if coh2 is any good ;) but I sure wanna try it)

  1. core M should also be capable of running warcraft frozen throne, another great game with many many many mods, which make it a lot of fun.

  2. Video playback should be smooth.

  1. Internet browsing should be smooth as well.

I am hoping yes is the answer to all these 5 questions, if 2 is no, that's kinda ok.

I want to know:

  1. What motherboards are available for core m which can also be used for desktop designs ? These motherboard must not have any fan on them.

  1. Additional components are also nice to know... ram chips and such.

  2. Also power supply capable of dissipating this heat away/out of case without requiring a fan would be very cool... I think heatsinks didn't exist during the time of the 80486 so this could be a chance to create a really cool, noiseless PC, except maybe for the harddisk slightly rattling but that's ok I think ;).

My main wish is too just have a PC which does not require any cleaning... as to not break things because of cleaning... also safes time.

Also I want this PC to be capable of running software to it's maximum potential/maximum cpu/gpu strain without overheating the system or causing other thermal issues.

Think of highly intensive cpu processing, perhaps bitcoin, or evolutionary software, or folding, rendering, gaming, any kind of high cpu/gpu/intensive computing.

This desktop PC design should also be able to function at ambient temperatures of 35 degrees celcius perhaps even 40 degrees celcius now with rising global temperatures ;) So this PC should be capable of running through a summer's heat at a breeze/without breaking a sweat ;).

What disappoints me about the chip is:

Only 2 cores, though it can run 4 threads.

Very small cpu cores, compared to the gpu core.... not sure if having cpu+gpu on one chip offers some kind of performance adventage. At the same time it's kinda nice though, only 4.5 watts for cpu+gpu !

However a different chip could also be considered in combination with a seperated gpu chip.

Assuming both chips can run at 4.5 watts max, and still be cooled by a passive cooling system.

I would then probably prefer a 4, 8-core or 16 core cpu with large L1 caches. (L1 cache size is usuable kept secret apperently, kinda annoying) very important cache.

GPU should then also run at 4.5 watts. I'm afraid such a gpu simply does not exist... so this is kinda surprising from intel. Seems like intel turning into a graphics company more than a cpu company ;)

Though AMD did same with ATI purchase... weird isn't it :)

I have yet to come across a competing product from AMD which can compete with core M... perhaps AMD does not want to compete for this segment ? Or perhaps it does and I am unaware of it at this moment... so please do share product suggestions.

2016 is still far away... as some of you may know I was hoping for an arm based system in 2016... but to wait another 2 years is kinda painfull... even 1 year is kinda painfull.

Also intel has some very nice instruction set extensions which seem promising. I am not sure how many clock cycles those new instructions take... like aes, or bmi, or crc32, some data on that would also be nice. (I think broadwell also has the mulx instruction for multi-byte arithmetic enhancements, well done intel ! pretty amazing ! ;))

(Skylake with the sha/bitcoin instruction would also be very fun to have, but probably too far away for now ;))

Another reason for my interest in a new PC is my current PC is sucking up a lllllllooottttt of dust and making a lllloottt of noise... and I am kinda sick of it... and web browsing has become somewhat slow/sluggish.... also youtube sluggish and so forth. Some more speed from a new system would be nice... it could speed up my day a bit... and save some time as well...

I am scared to run intense software on my current system (google skybuck's dream pc from 2006 to get an idea what it is).

I am scared it will suck something up and/or cause an overheat, or damage to ram chips because of stuff sucked in.

Only thing that worries me with a fanless design is harddisk damage cause of overheat... anybody have any experience with running hitachi deskstar or ultrastar harddisk in fanless systems ? Does it work ? Or does it crash the harddisk ? (Harddisk have some ram chips nowadays as well, probably causing some heat). I think it needs some airflow to keep cool, not sure though.

So basically I kinda want the same technology that's inside laptop's or tablet but with more room to breath, but coupled to my BIG-ASS monitor and BIG-ASS keyboard and a bit more ooppmmh if possible.

(I'd like the system to have overheat protection just in case, so system must completely shutdown in the case of overheat whatever it's doing. My current system/motherboard (winfast) has that and it's kinda nice ;))

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying
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I need to clarify something though.

The scare about running software 24/7 also has to do with the internet, software, windows, acrobat, flash, and all kinds of updating going on.

Nowadays system gets bothered with nags about software updates, especially windows itself can shutdown the system without ever asking.

Other software might perhaps do it on startup... but not sure.

So Microsoft itself has kinda made me scared of running software 24/7 because of their updates.

Scarey idea to be running a heavy-duty evolver and suddenly this update-crap starts which can fail/rollback and have all kinds of annoying consequences.

Could also jeapordize final results or influence calculations etc.

Though this updating behaviour can be termined/disabled but then system is at risk of hacking attempt which is even more scarier lol.

So all I am saying is leaving it unattended... hmmmm bad idea nowadays.

May have to think about a seperated system/computer disconnected from internet, to run task nonstop ;)

But if system must be connected to internet to run the task and update stuff to the net then you can start to see the problem a bit ;)

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

You might also look at the AMD Kabini. 25 watts power . Not fanless as sold but you could go fanless with a simple water cooling heat sink.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 05:14:47 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@krl.org" Gave us:

snip

4 watts. HD capable

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Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Holy fokking shit batman:

Not a core m... but something in the neighbourhood:

As hudson would say:

"Stop your grinnin' and drop your linen!"

And as usf4 guile would say: "here we go" lol:

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Perhaps overheat protection is not taking it to far... how about a fire extinquisher ;)

Bye, Skyhell :)

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

Not saying for better or for worst. But when we say PC, it usually imply x86.

Reply to
edward.ming.lee

I've had a Linux web server with email, ssh, ftp, etc. services as well the web server, running at home for more than a decade. Long ago, I got hacked a couple of times, now I think I have the security set high enough so that the idiots and even the pros are prelly well locked out.

These are run on Dell Optiplex desktop machines. My last personal desktop was bought used, and ran non-stop for 12 years before i decided to upgrade. The Optiplex is their commercial grade machine, not the home grade.

As for fanless, there are Intel Atom processors that can run fanless, and you can get fanless power supplies for them. A fanless Atom motherboard with SSD is pretty robust. We have made a number of these for remote device controllers.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

I've had a Linux web server with email, ssh, ftp, etc. services as well the web server, running at home for more than a decade. Long ago, I got hacked a couple of times, now I think I have the security set high enough so that the idiots and even the pros are prelly well locked out.

These are run on Dell Optiplex desktop machines. My last personal desktop was bought used, and ran non-stop for 12 years before i decided to upgrade. The Optiplex is their commercial grade machine, not the home grade.

As for fanless, there are Intel Atom processors that can run fanless, and you can get fanless power supplies for them. A fanless Atom motherboard with SSD is pretty robust. We have made a number of these for remote device controllers.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

Worse it can start up a PC on its own. I have an XP desktop that can start itself from the OFF state. I don't know if this is from the network card or what. But usually when it does turn itself on when I turn it off it does a Windows update.

You can turn off the automatic updating.

It was at risk before the update was available, so what changes? When do you want to do the updates?

Yeah, get used to it.

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

I don't know if it is only when hibernating, but pretty much every Wednesday at 2:00 am

-Lasse

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Yeah you right on the spot with the auto turn-on.

I have also seen some freaky shit with that.

For example if I just gently touch the backplate of the PC near the network card it will actually turn the PC on from sleep mode ?!

How weird is that ?!

Also sometimes I wake up and the PC is running... either because it's sleep mode didn't fully complete and started upgrades and let the PC run all night.

Or something else happened like mini earth quake, or truck driving by or neighbour bumping around and I think this moves the USB mouse and then switches on the PC ?! Woopsie totally weird.

Ofcourse some of this behaviour could be turned of in the BIOS possibily... but still weird that it's so sensitive ?! wow...

Yup... maybe vacuum cleaner turning it on.. or touching usb ports... other possibilities probably exists too.

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

Lol funny little thing.

My new system must at least be able to "host" 6 terrabytes of harddisk space or I am not coming out of my bed for it ! ;) :)

And 6 terrabytes is on the low side... In reality the new system will probably host "10" terrabytes which is mighty jummy ! ;)

Maybe even more :)

(I hate running out of disk space so I never ever ever ever ever ever ever wanna face such a situation ever ever ever LOL :))

Bye, Skybuck.

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

" You might also look at the AMD Kabini. 25 watts power . Not fanless as sold but you could go fanless with a simple water cooling heat sink. "

Too hot I think... if I go with a water cooling system then I might as well go all the way overboard with powerfull stuff unless even water cooling can't cool it ?!

But please do share.. you mentioned a "simple" water cooling heat sink ? Do tell us more... why would this be "simple" ? :)

The idea of leakage while the system is running is enough to "scare me stiff" lol... get it ? like the pinball machine lol ;) "scared stiff" ;) :)

Bye, Skybuck :)

Reply to
Skybuck Flying

This is not sleep mode. This is a desktop and is *off*, shut down... has to boot windows to come up again.

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

I haven't been into this stuff for a while, but maybe he doesn't mean water cooled. Maybe he means those liquid/gas phase change heat sinks that are great at getting the heat off the CPU and into the heat sink. I expect one of those might be good enough to get the heat out passively if the heat sink were big enough... HUGE fin area.

I think they are called heat pipes. Normally they are used with a big fan for cooling the really hot CPUs. They are supposed to be better than copper.

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

That's an EFI BIOS function, you can easily turn it off. And yes, letting a computer wake in the middle of the night to fetch MSFT updates while one sleeps would give me nightmares ;o)

Grant.

Reply to
Grant

Do you have to turn it off in the BIOS? I have gone through every Windows feature I can find that might have to do with it and it still happens.

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

5 years ago VIA was producoing fanless x86 nano-IXX systems. we stuck them in Morex (brand) cases with horrible 40mm fans, which spoiled the effect. 
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umop apisdn 


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Reply to
Jasen Betts

Windows cannot turn itself on in the middle of the night, the EFI BIOS does that, where else are you going to stop this happening?

Grant.

Reply to
Grant

Actually neither the BIOS or the OS turns itself on. The hardware has to do that. The hardware can be controlled by the OS just as easily as the BIOS. In fact there are settings in Windows and likely Linux and any other OS to allow either the modem or the network card to turn on the PC so it can respond to the communications being attempted with the machine.

But like I said, I have turned this off in Windows as far as I can tell, so perhaps it is still on in the BIOS. I'll take a look.

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Rick
Reply to
rickman

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