Expert Opinion Required !

Interesting that. Thomas Sowell has been complaining for years that the civil rights actions of the 60s has done nothing to improve the education of blacks, and indeed they had a better education (if not opportunity) before.

Not funny at all. The fact is that the schools are failing, but even motivated students can excell in failing schools.

You just noticed a hint?

True about forcing pain on others, but I don't think it's our place to judge what internal pain such a demented soul might be in. I don't think it's imaginable without being there.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Yes, but that can help...

A decade ago I decided to go back and get an engineering degree. I had a BS in psychology, so wanted to get a BS in EE. No Can Do! I tried every decent college in southern California (wanted to go to UCSB) but they all said no. They had no slots available for second bachelor students unless you had a 4.0 GPA, and your father/uncle/godfather was one of the regents...

So, moved out to Albeqe, and started at UNM. First day in class, sat next to a guy, and find out he is a grad student in EE. Then find out his bachelor's is in journalism! Light bulb goes on! Give UCSB a call, and ask about GRADUATE admissions. Seems that they don't get enough US applications, and that if I meet certain standards (the hardest is 90th percentile on the GRE) I can get in. They have mostly a foreign application pool, so they NEED US applicants.

A year later, I start at UCSB...

More than a hint. I am bitter over being deceived that the "American Way", the "American Dream", "morality", was premised on the creation and exchange of value, rather than a zero-sum lottery played with loaded dice.

Globalism, credit and immigration policies demonstrate those who pay for and run our government are more concerned with looting America than having it prosper. When it comes to vice (stupidity), substance abuse and gambling, the government will save you from yourself at gunpoint (if they are not getting a cut of the loot). But when it comes to imported goods manufactured in slave conditions, exploiting illegal immigrants you don't want to pay a competitive wage for, or extending credit (usury), it becomes a matter of "personal responsibility". So its OK to be evil to stupid people regarding money and employment, which makes the dependent on government, but not when it damages the health and safety of cash-cow peasants.

'The proof of an achieved self-esteem is a souls shudder of contempt at being cast in the role of sacrificial animal' - Rand.

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Scott

The purpose of existence is to suffer for those that love you? If they loved you, would they want you to suffer for them? Indeed some parents would! The children of perfectionistic control fiend parents that shame, guilt and scare their children into being little adults is the pressure that drives many to suicide when they can't achieve the goals of those who are vicariously living through them.

Only the ultimate cowards

There are examples of suicides that result in Pyrrhic victories. The Spartans at Marathon. The Jews at Masada and the Warsaw ghetto. Their deaths rather than deny the value of life, demonstrate the difference between living as a dignified human and living as an animal.

Scott

Poor baby.

John

Ok, who is the ultimite victim? It is *always* our place to judge. That's what humans do, constantly. I guess we'll differ here.

Put that way, yes. ...and it works both ways.

Have you ever been in the middel of such disruption? We're not talking simply about death here.

Perhaps, but it doesn't excuse either.

Earth to Scott!

Mine went to a supposedly "good school" here, but what was supposed to be "good" wasn't. The biology teacher had no science background and totally pissed off the kids that wanted to learn science. The rest of the school was more about PC than teaching, so not muc of the latter got done. My son got frustrated and dropped out of school after graduation, but has been doing quite well since. He's not dumb, but was bored *stiff* in school.

They *are* bad. Your daughter is the exception that can learn through the BS. She will do well in life.

Oh, my! It took you that long to figure it out. Even when I was in school (early '70s) a second BS (or BA) was next to impossible. I know people who lied about their previous degrees to get into undergraduate school. Hell, it was next to impossible to go from an AAS to a BS program. Once one had a BS, it was easy to switch specialties though (assuming minimal qualifications). They were all in the "graduate college".

In SOME cases, in my judgment, it's mental illness and a blackness than cannot be fathomed. Many years I tried to reach a very good friend a few days before he offed himself, and I don't think there was cowardice or vindictiveness but something else there that's hard to describe but still sends a chill down my spine. Yes, we were all very angry (VERY angry) and hurt by the whole thing, but I can't say that our pain would be more than his. I can't imagine so, there was not a cowardly bone in the man's body, and I knew him in just about every state a human being is capable of.

I can well imagine other scenarios where the person is weak and has had a bad year, is trying to make a statement, wants to hurt someone with a guilt trip or whatever, and that would fit your blanket statement, but I don't think it applies to all case. If we differ, that's fine. Fortunately, my experience in this area is limited!

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Agreed; if there is any ultimate honor or glory to our lives, it is the quality and quantity of the values we strive and suffer for, rather than what we enjoy and exploit.

Be more specific. Do you mean ensuing blame, divorce, and further suicides?

I have been around those sick and dying. If they had chosen to hasten the end by overdosing on morphine, rather than hanging around for their last gasp, I couldn't blame them. In fact, I wonder if it really isn't the most sane and rational act. You can't be accused of fearfully running from death till the last minute, like a terrified helpless animal. Nietzsche has some heroic sentiments regarding how to die well, fyi.

I do find there is a legitimate objection to euthanasia and doctor assisted suicide by pop Christians. They point to Holland and the "encouraged" if not forced euthenizing of the sick and dependent. Those that subscribe to social relativism would heartily encourage that "worthless eaters" be euthenized for the good of the collective for damn near any trivial excuse. I won't fault those with a zeal for life avoiding the slippery slope into devaluing and exploiting it.

And I should add another thought. Recently the delightful Mr. Thomson criticized me for criticizing his dear MIT. "What have you accomplished", said he, implying that, if I can't claim whatever Ivy League accomplishment the tax-payer funded, discriminating aristocrats can, I'm not entitlement to an opinion or to be taken seriously.

So its no wonder the children of those inculcated in a fascist zero-sum culture, a moral lottery, a rat-race, where those voted the most popular are sanctioned to lord it over those not conferred prestige by consensus, would rather suicide than assume a servile social role.

Somewhere on the play ground or grade-school, when the punk bullies are picking their friends to play on sport teams, and shunning the more competent but less popular, and the teachers, 2nd rate losers they are, are sitting back watching the rat-race be inculcated as if it were "normal", we learn the legitimacy of choosing winners and losers based on consensus rather than competency. And it is preached that discriminating based on race or gender or religion is an evil, yet not on some other cheap label? Anything other than merit?

I suppose if I believed not having an Ivy League degree qualified me as hopelessly inferior and servile, I'd jump off a roof too. It is no wonder those fascist snobs that live by the sword, demeaning, discriminating against and enslaving others, prefer to die by their own swords, rather than be enslaved under the swords of others. While I have hope, and fear going before my maker without the courage, strength and will beaten out of me. That is my accomplishment - my glory, and the shame of the greedy, mean and stupid that rule the rat-race.

"I SWEAR BY MY LIFE AND MY LOVE OF IT THAT I WILL NEVER LIVE FOR THE SAKE OF ANOTHER MAN, NOR ASK ANOTHER MAN TO LIVE FOR MINE." - Rand

Oops, I meant Thermopylae, where Spartan king Leonidas martyred himself and 300 Spartans so the main Greek force could escape the Persian king Xerxes. Oh the shame of getting a government education! At least there's the History Channel between the cartoons.

"Public toilet, public housing, public school! Don't Go There! No Child Gets Ahead!". - Scott

Yea, I'm sure as hell on Earth. What planet are you on? I happen to believe that one should enjoy life, accomplishing worthy purposes, rather than living enslaved and miserable.

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry

It is because of such men who would rather die then be enslaved, or even pay tribute, that we are free and prosperous, and not living under a Stalin, Hitler or Hussein.

Scott

If your ox is ever gored, your chestnuts ever roast in the flames, yourself or your precious children ever subjected to injustice by the mob, expect no sympathy for your indignation. "Life is tough". "Shit Happens". "It's a dog-eat-dog world". et. et.

Scott

Fair trade: neither of us will whine to the other. OK?

Actually, in this place and time, it isn't, very.

Neurosis happens. Self-pity happens.

John

Yeah, the revelation was that you didn't need a Bachelors degree in engineering to get a Graduate degree in engineering! Now I kid my wife I am going back to get my PhD in Physics... 8-)

We've been there and discussed that. Depends if your ox is getting gored or not.

So does indifference. My accounts don't invalidate your accounts, nor yours mine, and though my enemy is my friend's friend, he is still my enemy.

Scott

He still thought of himself before others: coward. I'm not saying that he wasn't in a deep abyss, likely (by definition?) mentally ill, but he was still the only one of concern.

My son's 8/9th grade math teacher offed himself right after getting my son straightened around (by simply challenging him every day). A few of my son's friends took the cowards way out, and didn't care about any they'd touched. He was in therapy for years (nothing god came of that either).

Certainly there are the the criminally insane that are outside the norms too. Likewise, there are people who are so sick they want to die. These aren't the "normal" college suicide types though.

We disagree. So be it.