you think vocational education should be a safety net for students who fail college. Vocational education and the trades are very detailed oriented an d require intelligence, unless you want to be just a jobsite helper. The pe ople who fail college these days are fundamentally good for nothing, and th ey join the same people who fail voc-ed..
Technically a college degree is bachelors level, so I only have one college degree.
st state community college/university systems now cooperate so that the com munity college students are guaranteed full credit for their work at the un iversity level. This is because the community college students are continui ng at the university level in greater numbers.
Sounds like you're drawing on observations from the 60s or 70s, they're no longer relevant. I went to a preparatory hs and as far as I could tell, the only difference was a little more emphasis on so-called classical educatio n, like dead languages and more detailed ancient history courses...I'm pret ty sure no one is being pushed into that kind of curriculum these days.
t if you > > > think vocational education should be a safety net for studen ts who fail
d require > > >intelligence, unless you want to be just a jobsite helper. T he people who > > >fail college these days are fundamentally good for nothi ng, and they join > > >the same people who fail voc-ed..
rocess of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than tha t of acquiring academic skills.
y
te
ow, but
- in
t the
training > > or an "associate track" whatever that might be, but none of t his seems to
ciates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, electr ical, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, compute r networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degrees. Th e more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, welding, e lectrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not degr ees. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certification t esting at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to work if required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs provide th e backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch of dr opouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or eve n to be perceived as such.
iety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a pro ductive point of view.
e six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it's when e ven the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm pretty sure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fast foo d industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
You should find out what those schools require to get a degree before you m ake an idiot of yourself- it's pretty minimal stuff. The dropouts are in fa ct useless dregs.
he kept on getting fascinated by aspects of the stuff he was studying that he didn't need to know to pass his exams. He was brilliant enough to get a degree eventually - though it took him quite a while - and he eventually i nvented and patented a better confocal microscope and - somewhat later - go t a few million dollars for it.
80,00.html
Except for Lady Gaga, a list of dregs...
be good at and what kind of scheme of instruction might best develop their skills in the areas where they look promising.
ey can learn a lot about what they might be good at in the process, but 30% never make it - or that seems to be the Australian figure
5-2013.pdf
ut it does provide the raw data.
s got caught up in partying and just blew their opportunity.. that and they never bothered to look for anything of interest. If you're not even intere sted in the subject matter then what's there to motivate you?
I do not think most college grads take fluff courses. But many get majors in fields where there is not a lot of demand for labor. And you should be thankful for that. Imagine how your life would be different if all the lib eral arts majors changed and majored in electronics. Engineers would be a dime a dozen.
To many kids are taking EE courses and graduating without understanding much about electricity. Electromagnetics and Signals&Systems are now electives in many places, and are avoided because they are hard. I regularly interview intern applicants, and it's awful how few have learned much useful stuff.
I was talking, at the Photonics West show last week, to the dean of an EE school in Colorado. She has a company on the side making EUV light sources and had a booth at the show. She said "Don't blame me... you should see the kids that I get to work with!" She might send me the occasional kid that gets it.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics
I helped a friend get a job at the company where I worked once. He was shortly out of community college but didn't have much motivation to get a good job. I encouraged him to apply and they initially didn't have a spot for him. As it turned out they did hire him, but in a rock bottom slot assembling battery chargers, you know, nuts and bolts stuff. With no experience the only reason they hired him at all is because he had the AA degree (that his mom made him get).
The rest of the story is that after some 7 or 8 years working there they are ready to promote him to management. Now he will have to go back to school to get a 4 year degree. lol
if > > > > > you think vocational education should be a safety net for stu dents
d
.
ocess of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than that of acquiring academic skills.
e
w,
ody
f
iates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, electri cal, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, computer networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degrees. The more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, welding, el ectrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not degre es. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certification te sting at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to work if required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs provide the backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch of dro pouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or even to be perceived as such.
ety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a prod uctive point of view.
six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it's when ev en the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm pretty s ure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fast food industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
There you go again. People differ and they drop out for different reasons. Assuming that "almost all of" them are dregs is intellectually lazy. One of the more depressing lessons we can learn from the gold-mining industry is that there's always something valuable left in the dregs, and a better extr action scheme can make it worth-while to mine greedier peoples "waste" for the last few flecks of gold.
he kept on getting fascinated by aspects of the stuff he was studying that he didn't need to know to pass his exams. He was brilliant enough to get a degree eventually - though it took him quite a while - and he eventually in vented and patented a better confocal microscope and - somewhat later - got a few million dollars for it.
He doesn't have to be typical to make the point.
be good at and what kind of scheme of instruction might best develop their skills in the areas where they look promising.
y can learn a lot about what they might be good at in the process, but 30% never make it - or that seems to be the Australian figure
-2013.pdf
t it does provide the raw data.
got caught up in partying and just blew their opportunity.. that and they never bothered to look for anything of interest. If you're not even interes ted in the subject matter then what's there to motivate you?
That's a sweeping generalisation. The people who drop out do more partying, parachute jumping, independent study or whatever than is consistent with d oing enough work to pass the course, but more personal contact with the ins tructors and a bit more day-to-day motivation would have got most of them t hrough.
They were bright enough to get through secondary school, where the teachers do work harder, and there are fewer students per teacher - which mostly he lps.
Being malleable enough for bullying by teachers to work improves your chanc es of doing well at secondary school, and really conscientious students ten d to do well at university (if they aren't actually dumb). People who are g oing to get maximal advantage from a university education tend to be more i ndependent, but if they are too independent they can't put up with being sp oon-fed over-simplified toy problems by instructors who don't know all tha much about what they are talking about..
"free lunch". In as far as Scandinavian and German socialism involves "free lunches", Joerg got the benefit of them when he was growing up, and should be aware that the government spending involved now looks more like an insp ired investment, rather than any kind of vote-buying.
I suppose the same idiots think bringing the cost of drugs down to the same as the rest of the world pays is looking for a free lunch.
"At a time when 35 million Americans cannot afford the medications they are prescribed, Pfizer's merger with an Irish company will allow them to dodge $35 billion in taxes. If Pfizer wants to pretend to be an Irish corporatio n, it could at least have the decency to charge Americans the drastically l ower prices it charges Irish consumers."- Sanders
out if you > > > think vocational education should be a safety net for stud ents who fail
and require > > >intelligence, unless you want to be just a jobsite helper. The people who > > >fail college these days are fundamentally good for not hing, and they join > > >the same people who fail voc-ed..
process of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than t hat of acquiring academic skills.
tay
iate
llow, but
dy - in
hat the
al training > > or an "associate track" whatever that might be, but none of this seems to
sociates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, elec trical, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, compu ter networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degrees. The more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, welding, electrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not de grees. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certification testing at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to work if required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs provide the backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch of dropouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or e ven to be perceived as such.
ariety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a p roductive point of view.
the six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it's when even the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm prett y sure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fast f ood industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
make an idiot of yourself- it's pretty minimal stuff. The dropouts are in fact useless dregs.
You haven't told us what these schools are, or provided any rational justif ication for the claim that all their drop-outs are useless dregs, which mak es you sound like krw.
se he kept on getting fascinated by aspects of the stuff he was studying th at he didn't need to know to pass his exams. He was brilliant enough to get a degree eventually - though it took him quite a while - and he eventually invented and patented a better confocal microscope and - somewhat later - got a few million dollars for it.
8080,00.html
And there are a couple of almost-Lady Gaga's around, any one of which might become as popular if Lady Gaga decided that she'd performed enough.
about if you > > > think vocational education should be a safety net for st udents who fail
d and require > > >intelligence, unless you want to be just a jobsite helpe r. The people who > > >fail college these days are fundamentally good for n othing, and they join > > >the same people who fail voc-ed..
he process of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than that of acquiring academic skills.
stay
ediate
follow, but
body - in
what the
onal training > > or an "associate track" whatever that might be, but none of this seems to
Associates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, el ectrical, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, com puter networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degrees . The more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, weldin g, electrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not degrees. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certificati on testing at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to wor k if required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs provid e the backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch o f dropouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or even to be perceived as such.
variety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a productive point of view.
t the six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it's wh en even the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm pre tty sure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fast food industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
e
y
ou make an idiot of yourself- it's pretty minimal stuff. The dropouts are i n fact useless dregs.
ification for the claim that all their drop-outs are useless dregs, which m akes you sound like krw.
Here are some of them:
formatting link
ause he kept on getting fascinated by aspects of the stuff he was studying that he didn't need to know to pass his exams. He was brilliant enough to g et a degree eventually - though it took him quite a while - and he eventual ly invented and patented a better confocal microscope and - somewhat later
- got a few million dollars for it.
988080,00.html
ht become as popular if Lady Gaga decided that she'd performed enough.
ut if > > > > > you think vocational education should be a safety net for s tudents
and
er.
or
process of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than th at of acquiring academic skills.
ay
ate
low,
ebody
of
l
of
ociates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, elect rical, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, comput er networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degrees. T he more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, welding, electrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not deg rees. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certification testing at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to work i f required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs provide t he backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch of d ropouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or ev en to be perceived as such.
riety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a pr oductive point of view.
he six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it's when even the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm pretty sure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fast fo od industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
.
of the more depressing lessons we can learn from the gold-mining industry i s that there's always something valuable left in the dregs, and a better ex traction scheme can make it worth-while to mine greedier peoples "waste" fo r the last few flecks of gold.
e he kept on getting fascinated by aspects of the stuff he was studying tha t he didn't need to know to pass his exams. He was brilliant enough to get a degree eventually - though it took him quite a while - and he eventually invented and patented a better confocal microscope and - somewhat later - g ot a few million dollars for it.
t be good at and what kind of scheme of instruction might best develop thei r skills in the areas where they look promising.
hey can learn a lot about what they might be good at in the process, but 30 % never make it - or that seems to be the Australian figure
05-2013.pdf
but it does provide the raw data.
ts got caught up in partying and just blew their opportunity.. that and the y never bothered to look for anything of interest. If you're not even inter ested in the subject matter then what's there to motivate you?
g, parachute jumping, independent study or whatever than is consistent with doing enough work to pass the course, but more personal contact with the i nstructors and a bit more day-to-day motivation would have got most of them through.
Nah- you don't know these people, they develop contempt for the education s ystem and education subject matter...
rs do work harder, and there are fewer students per teacher - which mostly helps.
nces of doing well at secondary school, and really conscientious students t end to do well at university (if they aren't actually dumb). People who are going to get maximal advantage from a university education tend to be more independent, but if they are too independent they can't put up with being spoon-fed over-simplified toy problems by instructors who don't know all th a much about what they are talking about..
s about if you > > > think vocational education should be a safety net for students who fail
ted and require > > >intelligence, unless you want to be just a jobsite hel per. The people who > > >fail college these days are fundamentally good for nothing, and they join > > >the same people who fail voc-ed..
the process of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding th an that of acquiring academic skills.
ld stay
mmediate
o follow, but
mebody - in
of what the
tional training > > or an "associate track" whatever that might be, but non e of this seems to
n Associates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, electrical, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, c omputer networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degre es. The more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, weld ing, electrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, no t degrees. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certifica tion testing at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to w ork if required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs prov ide the backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch of dropouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or even to be perceived as such.
le variety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a productive point of view.
at the six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it's when even the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm p retty sure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fa st food industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
e
h,
be
mpy
t
you make an idiot of yourself- it's pretty minimal stuff. The dropouts are in fact useless dregs.
stification for the claim that all their drop-outs are useless dregs, which makes you sound like krw.
And the one of the comments added to the web-site explains why Kent State University-East Liverpool, East Liverpool Ohio has such a poor g raduation rate - its students transfer to the main campus at Kent State Uni versity,Kent, OH, for their final year, and graduate from there.
At least some of their "drop-outs" aren't useless dregs, but rather transfe rs to the main campus.
bout if > > > > > you think vocational education should be a safety net for students
d and
lper.
for
e process of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than that of acquiring academic skills.
stay
diate
ollow,
omebody
a of
nal
ne of
ssociates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, ele ctrical, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, comp uter networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degrees. The more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, welding , electrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not d egrees. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certificatio n testing at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to work if required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs provide the backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch of dropouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or even to be perceived as such.
variety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a productive point of view.
the six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it's whe n even the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm pret ty sure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fast food industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
ns.
e of the more depressing lessons we can learn from the gold-mining industry is that there's always something valuable left in the dregs, and a better extraction scheme can make it worth-while to mine greedier peoples "waste" for the last few flecks of gold.
use he kept on getting fascinated by aspects of the stuff he was studying t hat he didn't need to know to pass his exams. He was brilliant enough to ge t a degree eventually - though it took him quite a while - and he eventuall y invented and patented a better confocal microscope and - somewhat later - got a few million dollars for it.
ght be good at and what kind of scheme of instruction might best develop th eir skills in the areas where they look promising.
they can learn a lot about what they might be good at in the process, but
30% never make it - or that seems to be the Australian figure
2005-2013.pdf
, but it does provide the raw data.
ents got caught up in partying and just blew their opportunity.. that and t hey never bothered to look for anything of interest. If you're not even int erested in the subject matter then what's there to motivate you?
ing, parachute jumping, independent study or whatever than is consistent wi th doing enough work to pass the course, but more personal contact with the instructors and a bit more day-to-day motivation would have got most of th em through.
system and education subject matter...
Since at least part of your example of tertiary institutions with really po or graduation rates turns out to be feeder campuses whose students actually graduate elsewhere, your contempt for at least a part of education system you've dumped has to reflect more irrational prejudice than reasoned judgem ent.
hers do work harder, and there are fewer students per teacher - which mostl y helps.
hances of doing well at secondary school, and really conscientious students tend to do well at university (if they aren't actually dumb). People who a re going to get maximal advantage from a university education tend to be mo re independent, but if they are too independent they can't put up with bein g spoon-fed over-simplified toy problems by instructors who don't know all that much about what they are talking about..
For EEs in the state schools here it's about a 1/3 graduation rate. The
2/3 populate the first two years of the program, then get booted. This larger group finances the cost of completion for the other third. They let the kids know the numbers up-front, but they don't explain that the reason is mainly financial. It sucks, but it's better than no chance at all. The school does require high entrance exam numbers, so it's not a shake-down, it's just the financial reality.
There was a popular T-shirt when I attended.
limit as GPA goes to zero of EE = Business Degree
BTW, the richest working guy I know owns a string of convenience stores.
For EEs in the state schools here it's about a 1/3 graduation rate. The
2/3 populate the first two years of the program, then get booted. This larger group finances the cost of completion for the other third. They let the kids know the numbers up-front, but they don't explain that the reason is mainly financial. It sucks, but it's better than no chance at all. The school does require high entrance exam numbers, so it's not a shake-down, it's just the financial reality.
There was a popular T-shirt when I attended.
limit as GPA goes to zero of EE = Business Degree
BTW, the richest working guy I know owns a string of convenience stores.
On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 5:27:45 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote :
te:
e:
d_clinton/
the people whose
Universities
get it are
just abandoned
ins about if you > > > think vocational education should be a safety net fo r students who fail
ented and require > > >intelligence, unless you want to be just a jobsite h elper. The people who > > >fail college these days are fundamentally good f or nothing, and they join > > >the same people who fail voc-ed..
ut the process of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than that of acquiring academic skills.
ould stay
immediate
to follow, but
somebody - in
a of what the
cational training > > or an "associate track" whatever that might be, but n one of this seems to
an Associates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical , electrical, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, computer networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate deg rees. The more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, we lding, electrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not degrees. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certifi cation testing at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to work if required at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs pr ovide the backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bun ch of dropouts who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year colleg e or even to be perceived as such.
hole variety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn 't a productive point of view.
5% at the six year mark. Not sure what's going on with six years, maybe it' s when even the Feds pull the plug on their tuition assistance grants...I'm pretty sure almost all those people are dregs not fit to even work in the fast food industry, and they're definitely worthless for the trades.
ree
ugh,
to be
wimpy
ust
re you make an idiot of yourself- it's pretty minimal stuff. The dropouts a re in fact useless dregs.
justification for the claim that all their drop-outs are useless dregs, whi ch makes you sound like krw.
graduation rate - its students transfer to the main campus at Kent State U niversity,Kent, OH, for their final year, and graduate from there.
Don't quote a bunch of bs comments to me- you need to understand America is a nation of trash, vermin, liars and thieves. The comment was probably wri tten by some administrative parasite employed by the "school"- and I use th at word very loosely.Two facts prove the comment a bald lie: 1) all the maj ors are either two year or certificate, and 2) the retention rate (percenta ge students returning after first year) is 58%. See the majors here:
formatting link
erpool retention data:
formatting link
iversity-east-liverpool
Someone has huge gap to fill to explain away that 9% graduation rate. And the area of the country there: decrepit juncture of Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia- Hell would be preferable!
you > > > think vocational education should be a safety net for students w ho fail
equire > > >intelligence, unless you want to be just a jobsite helper. The people who > > >fail college these days are fundamentally good for nothing, and they join > > >the same people who fail voc-ed..
ess of learning vocational skills is more immediately rewarding than that o f acquiring academic skills.
but
in
he
aining > > or an "associate track" whatever that might be, but none of this seems to
ates Degree. Most of the technology degrees, mechanical, chemical, electric al, medical laboratory, fire science, horticultural/agricultural, computer networks, nursing, etc...endless list, are two year associate degrees. The more traditional vocational programs like carpentry, plumbing, welding, ele ctrician training, drafting, masonry...etc...award certificates, not degree s. Quite a few of these fields require some sort of final certification tes ting at the national level to obtain employment or be licensed to work if r equired at the local level.At any rate, many of these programs provide the backbone workers for industry and you don't want them to be a bunch of drop outs who couldn't hack the remedial courses of a four year college or even to be perceived as such.
ety of reasons. Lumping them together as "a bunch of dropouts" isn't a prod uctive point of view.
he kept on getting fascinated by aspects of the stuff he was studying that he didn't need to know to pass his exams. He was brilliant enough to get a degree eventually - though it took him quite a while - and he eventually in vented and patented a better confocal microscope and - somewhat later - got a few million dollars for it.
be good at and what kind of scheme of instruction might best develop their skills in the areas where they look promising.
y can learn a lot about what they might be good at in the process, but 30% never make it - or that seems to be the Australian figure
-2013.pdf
t it does provide the raw data.
That is a bunch of bull! The last two years are gravy compared to the first two. The engineers struggle with courses outside their department in math , physics and chemistry- even though they're diluted versions of the materi al and not recommended for students majoring in those fields. If they're dr opping out it's because the engineering instruction is such low quality bor ing trash.
It was about the same when I went to college 45 years ago, though the reason certainly wasn't financial (rather intentional, using physics and chemistry as the executioners). Though I didn't think so at the time[*], the state university was dirt cheap by today's standards.
[*] Pretty much paid the way through on 1-1/2 minimum wage jobs.
I don't understand how you come up with "this larger group finances the cost of _completion_ for the other third", though.
Some things never change, though s/business/education/
"Owns" is the key word. If you're employer is making you rich, think about what you're doing for him.
I had only suspicions as an undergrad. Later in grad school in the same state system, I had it confirmed by my adviser.
The problem faced by administrators is that it costs a lot to have a good engineering program. They make money filling auditoriums with 200 students and lose money on the upper level courses with only 20 students. BTW, for state schools a lot of the $/student are paid by the state.
If the students consisted of all Einstein-level geniuses, they would still be forced to eliminate 2/3 with weed out-classes. This is driven by the finances.
It sucks, but it's great to have even a chance at getting a good engineering education for students who can't afford the big bucks charged by other schools. There is also a kind of fairness to it since the students who perform best are the one's that get to stay. It's better than discriminating against students solely using factors outside of their control.
When I was in Ireland last year I stayed at the most wonderful hostel I've ever been to. In talking to the owner, he said that since in Ireland college is free, he went to college. But he soon realized that college was not for him.
Hopefully he's making a decent living owning this hostel. It seems to be booked pretty solid.
formatting link
One community college in the next county up has an automotive technology program run by Toyota. A graduate of that program can get a good paying union job at a Toyota dealer, or open their own repair shop, and do a lot better than a lot of college graduates.
My brother-in-law, and experienced mechanic took Toyota's classes there as well (and as a result most of the extended family bought Toyotas because that was the specialty at his own shop).
However one thing you really do learn in a university is critical thinking skills. If we had more educated people in the U.S. then Donald Trump would not be the front runner in the Republican party.
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.