Do distributors still program micros?

Fifteen or so years ago, "value added services" were all the rage among distributors--they'd make cables, or flash micros to order.

That seems mostly gone. How do you folks get MCUs programmed? Are there still distributors that do that?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
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Phil Hobbs
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We usually Jtag them at test time.

We have one product that uses 13 NXP Arm chips. 12 are identical, and Arrow programs them for us, for about 50 cents. We can solder them in without a jtag connector.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

Ya, it's not hard or expensive at all nowatimes to have a dedicated rack PC or something with a dozen (or more) USB ports on a couple PCI cards around back with USB programmer cables attached so you can program a bunch of boards in bulk, and run the test suite via Jtag header in a minute or to with a shell script. Like a $500 setup tops. it works fine for quantities of hundreds to a few thousand maybe.

Quantities of tens or hundreds of thousands of boards is outside my realm of experience.

Reply to
bitrex

I like the ATTiny series a lot; I put like ten of these in PCIe -> usb port expander slots of a PC with cables to pin headers that connect to the boards, the PC compiles the code, uploads to devices, devices run check-out routine and report back "we're good here!" to the PC and when everyone reports back OK PC reports batch OK. Entire process takes under a minute per batch

Reply to
bitrex

+1 This is entirely what we do now. Well, not just jtag, but SPI/ISP and 1-Wire depending on the chip(s) used.

We used to get vendor-programmed chips and also do in-house programming of discrete chips. It was a pain to stock both blank chips, and programmed chips, and deal with version changes (or being certain which firmware was really on the chip).

Once we moved to chips always being programmed at QA, everybody has been happier. I do all the board layouts here, so I'm the only one who has to be sure to include the proper headers, and it is a small price to pay for me.

A side benefit of doing it this way is that we always have a method of updating firmware on our boards in the future. This is very useful to me in R&D because I like to do 'custom' things with our own boards for various reasons.

Reply to
DemonicTubes

Mine too.

The application is for an ultralow-noise diode laser controller that we're licensing to a large biomed customer in California. It needs to be testable by their CM in Thailand, which of course is 12 hours away by the clock and several light years by culture. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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Phil Hobbs

The main motivation for us is that the standard small JTAG header is a $3 Samtec part, whereas the LPC804 micro is $0.67. The value proposition for our licensing negotiation is (1) our noise performance is 30 dB better than anything they can buy; (2) our BOM is $37 including connectors, boards, and stuffing (not counting the $700 laser diode) ;) vs. $3300 for their current unit. The tradeoff is a bit more analogue complexity.

So that $3 connector is a PITA.

Plus, of course, in 2018 a JTAG header is just asking to be hacked, rather like a trimpot in 1988.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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Phil Hobbs

We did include the jtag connector on all 12 channels of that board, in case we have to reprogram the chips, but we haven't had to do that so far. We got the code right!

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
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John Larkin

many MCU now have spi/serial bootloaders so it is very easy to make some hardware that'll program a chip at the press of a button without having to mess with sometimes finicky debuggers and drivers

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

test points and pogo pins

just copy the layout delete everything but the test points change them to holes of the right size for pogo pin sockets and add wires to a suitable connector and order some cheap proto pcbs

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

If we were doing it, that would be brilliant. However the Asian CM is really good at high quality crank turning but appears helpless if anything goes wrong. They need something a bit more idiot-resistant.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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Phil Hobbs

I had looked into that at one time. I think it was Avnet. They don't sell those parts anymore so not an option. It would save about 20-30 seconds i n programming time and I recall the cost was about $0.50. Due to how it ch anges the ordering process and may require that we buy a bunch of parts in advance I've stopped thinking about it.

My product does not have a separate JTAG connector populated. The unit has the ability to be programmed by the motherboard, so our test fixture conne cts those pins to a JTAG connector on the test fixture. No fuss, no muss r eally.

Rick C. Tesla referral code -

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gnuarm.deletethisbit

I flew Cathay Pacific once it seemed nice. Don't forget ya sunblock.

Bangkok, oriental setting but the city don't know what the city is getting. The creme de la creme of the chess world in a show with everything, but Yul Brynner...

Reply to
bitrex

We are considering a new product line where little ARM boards can be reprogrammed via an SPI link on a backplane. We'd have to get a boot loader into the chips first, and a distributor could do that for us.

Some of the ARMs that we use look for an async serial input at powerup, and boots from that if it sees it. Then it tries parallel flash, then serial flash.

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John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  
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John Larkin

something like this?

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for just jtag you can also use something like this:

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Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

ng

nd 1-Wire depending on the chip(s) used.

of discrete chips. It was a pain to stock both blank chips, and programme d chips, and deal with version changes (or being certain which firmware was really on the chip).

n happier. I do all the board layouts here, so I'm the only one who has to be sure to include the proper headers, and it is a small price to pay for me.

updating firmware on our boards in the future. This is very useful to me i n R&D because I like to do 'custom' things with our own boards for various reasons.

I don't quite follow. The alternative is a $3000 devivce, your device incl udes a $700 laser diode and you are jumping up and down about a $3 part tha t can be replaced by a $1 part?

It's not rocket science, buy the connector from someone other than Samtec o r change nothing and keep making a huge markup... Tell me you aren't basin g your product price on the cost of making the unit!??? Cost and price are very different things.

I pay under $100 for a product to be built and sell it for $350. The custo mer integrates it into their product and continues to mark it up another 40

0% or something insane like that. My customer contact has said to me sever al times to not feel guilty about it. lol

Rick C.

Tesla referral code +

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Reply to
gnuarm.deletethisbit

tirsdag den 20. november 2018 kl. 00.27.31 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:

what part? some have bootloaders in rom that might be able to boot off the same spi by wiggling the right pins on out of reset with no preprogramming needed

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Hmm OK but paying ten times as much for connectors and switches is normal to me. With a $700 LD a few bucks to make it robust is worth it. (or is this a one time connector?)

George H.

Reply to
George Herold

I forget what they are called, but last year I came across this [I'll describe as best I can...]

A little wire & connector setup where the connector would temporarily mate with bare pads on the circuit board, program it, then release ready for the next board. No connector needed. Just the PCB itself.

The pins in the connector were spring-loaded. There were 3 or 4 configurations, with some having extra holes in the board to grab the connector and hold it semi-captive. No hardware or turning screws, etc.. needed.

Reply to
mpm

tag-connect

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

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