Current-driving a powerful IR-illuminator array

On 11 Apr 2006 10:53:04 -0700, "BW" wrote:

--- Here's the LTSPICE circuit file for a circuit that works:

Version 4 SHEET 1 1308 680 WIRE -848 416 -848 352 WIRE -848 560 -848 496 WIRE -736 352 -848 352 WIRE -736 416 -736 352 WIRE -736 560 -848 560 WIRE -736 560 -736 496 WIRE -672 352 -736 352 WIRE -544 352 -592 352 WIRE -480 -160 -480 -208 WIRE -480 -32 -480 -80 WIRE -480 304 -480 -32 WIRE -480 560 -736 560 WIRE -480 560 -480 400 WIRE -432 -32 -480 -32 WIRE -304 -32 -352 -32 WIRE -240 -208 -480 -208 WIRE -240 -80 -240 -208 WIRE -240 48 -240 16 WIRE -240 176 -240 128 WIRE -240 320 -240 176 WIRE -240 560 -480 560 WIRE -240 560 -240 384 WIRE -176 176 -240 176 WIRE -16 176 -96 176 WIRE -16 176 -16 -896 WIRE -16 320 -16 176 WIRE -16 560 -240 560 WIRE -16 560 -16 400 WIRE 96 -736 96 -928 WIRE 96 336 96 144 WIRE 144 -928 96 -928 WIRE 144 -896 -16 -896 WIRE 144 144 96 144 WIRE 144 176 -16 176 WIRE 176 -944 176 -1280 WIRE 176 -512 176 -880 WIRE 176 -208 -240 -208 WIRE 176 128 176 -208 WIRE 176 560 -16 560 WIRE 176 560 176 192 WIRE 272 -912 208 -912 WIRE 272 160 208 160 WIRE 432 -912 352 -912 WIRE 432 160 352 160 WIRE 496 -960 496 -1008 WIRE 496 -736 96 -736 WIRE 496 -736 496 -864 WIRE 496 -688 496 -736 WIRE 496 -512 176 -512 WIRE 496 -512 496 -608 WIRE 496 -464 496 -512 WIRE 496 112 496 64 WIRE 496 336 96 336 WIRE 496 336 496 208 WIRE 496 384 496 336 WIRE 496 560 176 560 WIRE 496 560 496 464 WIRE 496 608 496 560 WIRE 576 -1008 496 -1008 WIRE 576 64 496 64 WIRE 704 -1008 656 -1008 WIRE 704 64 656 64 WIRE 832 -1008 784 -1008 WIRE 832 64 784 64 WIRE 960 -1008 912 -1008 WIRE 960 64 912 64 WIRE 1088 -1008 1040 -1008 WIRE 1088 64 1040 64 WIRE 1248 -1280 176 -1280 WIRE 1248 -1008 1168 -1008 WIRE 1248 -1008 1248 -1280 WIRE 1248 -208 176 -208 WIRE 1248 -208 1248 -1008 WIRE 1248 64 1168 64 WIRE 1248 64 1248 -208 WIRE 1248 304 1248 64 WIRE 1248 560 496 560 WIRE 1248 560 1248 384 FLAG 496 608 0 FLAG 496 -464 0 SYMBOL Opamps\\\\LT1006 176 96 R0 SYMATTR InstName U1 SYMBOL res 368 144 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 2700 SYMBOL res 512 480 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 0 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 1 SYMBOL npn 432 112 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMATTR Value 2N4401 SYMBOL res 672 48 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 800 48 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 928 48 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 1056 48 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 1184 48 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R7 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL voltage 1248 288 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value 12 SYMBOL res -32 304 R0 SYMATTR InstName R8 SYMATTR Value 240 SYMBOL res -80 160 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R9 SYMATTR Value 2200 SYMBOL res -256 32 R0 SYMATTR InstName R10 SYMATTR Value 3300 SYMBOL pnp -304 16 M180 SYMATTR InstName Q2 SYMATTR Value 2N4403 SYMBOL res -336 -48 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R11 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -496 -176 R0 SYMATTR InstName R12 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL References\\\\LT1009 -240 352 R0 SYMATTR InstName U2 SYMBOL npn -544 304 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q3 SYMATTR Value 2N3904 SYMBOL res -752 400 R0 SYMATTR InstName R13 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL voltage -848 400 R0 WINDOW 3 -3 207 Left 0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 5 0 1e-6 1e-6 .001 .01 10) SYMBOL res -576 336 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R14 SYMATTR Value 1k SYMBOL Opamps\\\\LT1006 176 -976 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3 SYMBOL res 368 -928 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R15 SYMATTR Value 2700 SYMBOL res 512 -592 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 0 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName R16 SYMATTR Value 1 SYMBOL npn 432 -960 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q4 SYMATTR Value 2N4401 SYMBOL res 672 -1024 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R17 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 800 -1024 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R18 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 928 -1024 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R19 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 1056 -1024 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R20 SYMATTR Value 8.4 SYMBOL res 1184 -1024 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R21 SYMATTR Value 8.4 TEXT -858 648 Left 0 !.tran 0 .1 0

It's basically a switched reference driving (if you want 40 lamps) eight five-lamp constant current drivers.

With 5 lamps dropping 2.1V each that's 10.5 volts out of 12, which gives you 1.5 volt of headroom to play with, which the 2N4401's and current sense resistors soak up nicely.

I've modelled the LEDs as 8.4 ohm resistors, since:

2.1V R = ------- = 8.4 ohms 0.25A

I've only shown two drivers and their loads, for convenience, but the other six just connect across the 12V supply, with the + input of all the opamps going to the reference voltage at the junction of R8 and R9.

It simulates beautifully, as you'll see when/if you run it.

Post back if you have any questions. :-)

-- John Fields Professional Circuit Designer

Reply to
John Fields
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I used to be an adamant top-poster, but I've been saved! ;-)

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

A simple current mirror might work for parallel/series strings of LEDs. You may need to thermally couple the tansistors to keep matching reasonable.

--
Mark
Reply to
qrk

--
Geez, what happened?

Seems like I posted and the thread died...
Reply to
John Fields

Don't take it too seriously, John. I've been killing threads for years. ;-P

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

I saw it. Noted that it works... as is usual for your posts.

So I left it to the dweebs to ask dumb questions ;-)

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

formatting link
| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Reply to
Jim Thompson

--
Damn, Jim, a compliment???

I must have died and gone to heaven... ;)

Thanks!
Reply to
John Fields

Have I ever criticized your circuits other than professional-level questions?

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

--
Yup.  A while ago you used to denigrate them by referring to them
as "\'designs\'", with the quotes around them in a sentence.

But we don\'t need to go there, do we?
Reply to
John Fields

Nope.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

I used the idea with the op-amp and power transistor, and it worked fine! Of course, afterwards, I recognized the circuit, but it was buried in my brain since it was about 10 yrs ago I studied this.. The op-amp circuit has the advantage of reducing the dependence on Vbe and Rb*Ib, and temperature (within sane limits).

I downloaded Eagle, and drew a schematic and made a PCB. Really good program!

Now, for the next version of this, I'd like to reduce the number of LED chains by making some kind of step-up power supply which can take the

12 VDC input and load up the 10,000uF capacitors to a higher voltage during the low duty cycle, so I could put more LED's in each chain. But for now, this will do fine.

I wonder how high pulsed current these LED's can sustain. In the datasheet it only says max 500 mA pulses of 100 us duration. I need to do at least 1 ms duration, but there are no curves showing max current as a function of pulse-duration (I've seen those curves in other IR LED's datasheets). So I put it at 300 mA arbitrarily :) BTW anyone know any IR LED's that are more powerful than the Agilent HSDL-4230 ?

Regards,

Bjorn

Reply to
BW

I've done some tests with the HSDL-4400 recently. At a 1 kHz rep rate, on time = 2 us, current = 9 Amps, I ran the LED for 1.8 million pulses without problem. The same LED went through a battery of tests from

Reply to
qrk

Interesting. So what you are saying is that if I hook up a sufficiently linear (or calibrated) photodetector, I could measure how the LED behaves when scanning over duty-cycles and/or currents, and where it starts going non-linear is probably where I don't want to be because it goes non-linear as an effect of heat buildup at the junction (that's what kills it right) ?

/Bjorn

Reply to
BW

Mark,

Has your E-mail address changed?

I sent you an Excel question but have seen no response.

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

formatting link
| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Reply to
Jim Thompson

Sent you an email with updated info. Should have been stable for the past 10 months.

--
Mark
Reply to
qrk

Your main concern isn't really non-linearity, but overheating of the die. But yes, by monitoring the LED voltage, current, and light output you will come to some sort of conclusion of an appropriate drive level. Running the LED at currents over 6A you can see the light output sag with time after about 1 us. Since your using longer on-times, you need to operate the diode at a saner current level.

--
Mark
Reply to
qrk

Seems my PCB worked, driving all 50 LEDs pulsed at the required current, and I didn't even get any fat jitter on the 12VDC feed thanks to the big honking capacitor I put to handle the excharge. Thanks guys for the hints now I have something to play with over easter :)

I did realize however that it's very clumsy to have to have 10 copies of the same circuit (opamp + resistor + power trans) so I was wondering if you who have suggested a higher voltage to run more LEDs in series have any hints on what to base a DC-DC converter on (say 12 VDC to

10mA@48VDC on average), a Max circuit perhaps controlling an inductor ? This would be loading up the big capacitor during duty-cycle off.

Of course, putting more LEDs in a single string means if one dies, the whole string is caput. But maybe that's not probable, what happens first to a LED with age ? Does it retain its v-i curve but gets less light-efficiency, or does it change v-i (potentially breaking the circuit) ?

Regards, Bjorn

Reply to
BW

Your main problem is being sent on a wild-goose chase by a well known newsgroup pest, troll, and ignorant pretentious idiot, "Rich Grease"- the "dreaded" this and that. You will notice the complete fake offered no further suggestions to handling your quandary as is usual with that kind. At 12V you end up with bunches of current source strings, each requiring a bunch of parts overhead and delivering poor accuracy.

Reply to
Fred Bloggs

20 * sqrt(0.03) = 3.4641, just as I expected.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

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