competitive bid procedures?

Is there a pre-bid conference?

tm

Submit a bid for the equipment, with optional line items for installation, wiring, whatever.

Or just for the equipment, with a clear statement that that's all that's included. If they miss it and give you the contract, then the change orders begin...

John

No, not for this one. You have to contact the guy managing the bids to get an individual walkthrough of the site. What is even more fun, is that, according to the equipment list, several components from the original system, like the ceiling speakers, are listed in the RFQ as "Already In Place" Actually, they were taken out, and will now have to be re-installed! As I remarked to some others, I could buy all this equipment, plie it in the corner of the room, and I would meet the contract specifications!

"Oh, you wanted me to CONNECT this equipment too! Gee, I wish you had put that in the contract!" ;-)

Charlie

The ones I'm familiar with have a process for interested bidders to submit questions on or before a specified date/time. The questions (possibly redacted) and answers are then sent out to all interested bidders. Sometimes the process results in a revised RFQ.

It may be that they intend to do this in two (or more?) stages, with the equipment procurement separate from system design and installation.

As tm mentioned, there ought to be a bidder's conference. At the very least, a contracting officer to contact.

--
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA

Oh, that is Evil, EEEVVVVIIIILLLL!

I like it! 8-)

Charlie

The fun part of this is, on the original sound system, they did it the exact same way. I told them then what the right way was to do it, and even offered to help out this time, but they wouldn't let me.

Charlie

Well, that's the way most construction companies and defense contractors survive. Bid low, knowing the spec is incomplete, and nail the customer on change orders.

John

If you had helped, you would be ineligible to bid.

tm

Probably, but then we would still have gotten a good system. I am a citizen first, then a businessman...

Charlie

In the boilerplate legalese section, is there any text that deals with clarification of specifications? I suggest you call them, tell them of the problem, and ask them what they want you to do. Play dumb.

Actually, the first question is: Do you think you will have any competition on the Bid? I know times are tough, so maybe there will be. In which case, some a-hole will low-ball it and there'll be no prize anyway.

But if you want to go for it, it is not your fault the RFQ is defective. Bid what it says. The Buyers options are then, do a bunch of change orders, or re-let the RFQ. If you bid it the way it is "supposed" to be done, you may not (probably not?) get the award.

Best of luck!!

-mpm

Ok, but there is the second problem - the equipment that is on the list! It is all top-of-the-line, gold plated, everything including the kitchen sink type of stuff for a council chamber in a city of 35K!

70" LCD screens, Crestron control system, RGBHV switching (to WHAT? from WHAT?) DSP based mixers. Basically, the guy must have asked some friends what type of equipment he should include, and put it in. Much of it doesn't make much sense...

BTW, did I mention that the rest of the renovation is complete? What ever conduits, if any, they diegned to put in is what you will have to work with. The design documents didn't really specify them...

Charlie

If you're so pissed off, as a citizen, that you want something done, then take the RFQ, mark it up with all the places where you think they're being wasteful, make up your own list of stuff that you think would do the job just as well but not be as super zoot, then come up with a bottom line for "the city's way" and "the economical way". Then, give each member of the city council _exactly one try_ at making it good. If that doesn't work, then take the whole shebang to (a) your local paper, and (b) the most likely opponent of each member of the city council -- preferably the tea-bagger types.

If you want the city's business, bid the damn thing as it stands. Perhaps submit a bid for "equivalent" equipment (or read the bid _very carefully_ to see if it doesn't already call out "or equivalent" someplace), but only do that _after_ you've done the real bid, and only do that _if_ the bidding process allows for parallel bids from the same guy.

I'd talk to the purchasing officer, and try to get an idea of what _he_ wants. If you make his life easy (without stepping over whatever the local boundaries are for making his life _too_ easy), then your bid will get preferential treatment.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

At the risk of being cynical, perhaps some board member just wants to get new components FOR THEIR HOME???

But, on a bit more serious side: So just bid on the components, suggest another set of components, pointing out the obvious cost savings, and then put in a clause that says: Installation (and what ever associate activities) will be billed at a rate of $X/hr. No other caveats. If the intelectually challenged brain-trust that issued the RFP agrees to it, you win big. If they don't and issue a RFP for installation, you can go from there. Don't ya just love dealing with clueless public who think that mind reading is something everyone should posess? lol

Ohhh , wait..... "tore out this past summer'....then 'remodeled'.....NOW want the sound system installed???? well DUH, what is wrong with this seqence of events????? Hmmm what city do you live in? Hooterville? lol

Good luck

-John

Sounds like a recipy for a dissaster. Are you sure you want to make an offer? I'd give them a call and ask for a tour through the building. This might give you a chance to meet people who have some say in what needs to be installed.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
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Tender people don't like smart arses. mpm is right bid what they asked for with a $/hr for work outside the contract specification.

If you want offer a second bid using your preferred equipment as a one to one replacement for the stuff they asked for.

The bid should go to the lowest price for a compliant offers. Try to quote for what they need rather than what they want is a sure fire way not to win.

am

the

RFQ

am

A couple of guesses at this point: 1. the fix is in and some council members cousin gets the bid anyway. 2. some idiot went to some fancy shmancy home theater outfit and asked for the best of several different kinds of equipment without any regard that they might not be used together.

?-)

No, it is worse. I sent in an email to the council complaining about all this, and the city manager (through the finance director...) responded - to the council, not to me! - that audio/video systems were just commondity items, with no real differentiation between different vendors, so just posting an equipment list is the best way to get a quote...

This is wrong on so many level, it just makes me want to cry!

Charlie

This really is sad. Who elected these clowns? The worst thing is that they probably go ahead and end up spending a lot of community money on stuff that won't work.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Make sure they have your details for when it doesn't work.

Then charge initial rate * 1.5 to sort it out for them.

Nial.