In space, Apollo used pure oxygen at 3 psi, about the same partial pressure as ambient air. 100% O2 at 15 PSI was what made the Apollo 1 fire so deadly, not so much the absence of nitrogen.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Phil Hobbs wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@electrooptical.net:
No... In space Apollo mission planners INTENDED to use 100% oxygen. After the Apollo 1 fire they changed it to low dilution low pressure. So they still dilute it even though it is now low pressure. And I thought it was more like 4 psi.
Nope. The Apollo spacecraft wasn't physically strong enough for a 15 PSI pressure difference.
The air pressure at the summit of Everest is about 5 PSI. At normal atmospheric composition, that's right on the edge of what humans can manage. Dropping the pressure by 20% to 4 PSI, or by 40% to the 3 PSI Apollo standard would have incapacitated the astronauts very rapidly.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com
Oh, indeed! One of the very earliest television shows I can remember watching as a kid (back in the black&white era) was a story about a group of men trapped somehow in a refrigeration plant that had an ammonia leak from the cooling coils.
One of the characters said "You can live for about half an hour, breathing ammonia-tainted air... and it'll be the worst half hour of your life."
Ok, I know better than to try to discuss anything with you. Sometimes I your extreme ignorance makes me forget that you just like to argue and don't understand anything anyone tells you.
So I accept your admission that it is CO that kills in automotive exhaust and won't pursue the matter further.
-- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
fredag den 7. februar 2020 kl. 23.12.15 UTC+1 skrev snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org:
if you both dilute it and have low pressure there's not enough oxygen to breathe
fredag den 7. februar 2020 kl. 23.04.50 UTC+1 skrev snipped-for-privacy@decadence.org:
Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote in news:3b1615bf- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
That is what they keep trying to tell the idiots constantly climbing Everest. Many die.
How would it do that? If it did, which it doesn't. Gasoline burns to CO2 (a nd water) in two steps, and the first step is oxidation to CO, which in ter m oxidises to CO2, but rather less rapidly. It the exhaust is short of oxyg en - as it can be if the car is running on a rich mixture - there can be qu ite a bit of CO in the exhaust.
Obviously untrue.
And all the other people who point out when you've screwed up. Your idea th at you never get anything wrong is the false presumption here.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Many lug along an oxygen bottle. Few of them die - at east not from altitude sickness.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
It's difficult to get a pressure of 5.1 atmospheres in an open jug.
As usual, Dan has missed the point.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
No one mentioned an open jug. You just did not read what was written.
Dan
Absorbtion fridges do not have a compressor but requires a heat source. It is often used in places in which there is no electricity, such as summer cottages and some form of gas (propane) is used as heat source.
In large industrial systems there are usually some waste heat sources or some combustible waste products that can be used as the heat source in the cooling process.
US Mercury and Gemini used pure oxygen at reduced pressure, Soviets used normal air also in their early space suites. Leonov had great problems when returning from the first space walk due to the inflated space suite.
On ISS normal air is used, but in space suits pure oxygen is used at reduced pressure to make the space suite more flexible. For this reason, astronauts intending to go on a space walk needs to breath pure oxygen one hour before dropping the pressure, to get nitrogen out of the blood circulation in order to avoid bends.
Bill Sloman wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Running car in a closed garage. The CO2 builds up and the oxygen DECREASES in the garage, so the combustion process degrades in the engine and MORE unburned fuels enter the exhaust system and MORE carbon MONoxide is generated. An engine sporting a full combustion process does NOT exhibit much if any MONoxide.
The MONoxide component of exhaust gasses are from the unburned combustion proces gasses.
You back on track now?
"A beer fridge for the chamber, a resistive heater, and a jug of liquid CO2 for cooling. "
American English may be different different from Australian and English English, but where I come from a jug is open container that you pour stuff out of.
Americans also use the word pitcher for that kind of container.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
No garage is that closed. There's enough diffusion through the walls to keep the oxygen content way higher than than the sort of level that would mess up the combustion process.
Twaddle.
The process always generates carbon monoxide. If it is set up right, most of the carbon monoxide gets further oxidised to carbon dioxide, but idling a car in a garage doesn't produce particularly complete combustion.
In the sense that it should have got burnt to carbon dioxide in the engine.
Not on your track, which doesn't happen to be a correct exposition of what's going on.
If you were right, piping the exhaust gases back into the body of a car which was idling in open air wouldn't produce a lethal atmosphere.
Sadly, it does.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
Bill Sloman wrote in news:570a341a-70c6-4288- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Running a car in a garage with the door closed means the engine will get less oxygen than it was getting in pretty short order. By some number of percentage points. Do you deny this?
Leave the inside door open and it will fill the entire house.
Bill Sloman wrote in news:570a341a-70c6-4288- snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Bullshit. Look it up, punk.
An engine does not produce much CO. Especially when run lean.
SO. DECIDEDLY. The CO producing motor is the one running rich or the one running with reduced oxygen. The motors of the sixties had very high compression but let out more than they burned.
And as was also stated, if it has a good catalytic converter in it, it will burn the waste gas and there will be little or no CO.
The problem with the garage is that even a catalytic converter fails because it cannot catalyze unless oxygen is present and the air injection system is injecting foul air. So deeper into the CO producing rabbit hole goes the car.
The oxygen level in the air is about 20.95%. Burning gasoline converts some of that oxygen to CO2 and water, so the oxygen level in a closed garage wi ll be reduced. Garages aren't hermitically sealed, and oxygen diffuses thro ugh walls remarkably fast, so if it dropped more than a few percent I'd be surprised.
Nobody seems to have measured it.
Cars do seem to put out enough carbon monoxide - even if they have catalyti c converters - to make the exhaust gases lethally dangerous, even if car is stationary in open air - and I did give you a link to an example of that s ituation, which you've snipped without marking the snip.
With enough carbon monoxide to kill you (which isn't all that much).
Depleting the oxygen is a much more demanding job.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
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