Ceramic capacitor value changes drastically with DC bias

Mar 06, 2013 42 Replies

I built a little LNA (not wideband, ends ca. 50MHz IIRC) with 10uF 50V

1206 X7R caps coupling the input and output. Thought it was reading strange waveforms, maybe power supply transients or something, until I realized they were microphonic.

On further inspection, the transients observed from tapping the PCB have a frequency reasonable with respect to the acoustic length of said board.

FWIW, that was around 10mV for a casual finger tap. Think the caps were TDK. Soldered with big globs on either end, which will tend to increase strain.

Tim

Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com

Here in CA, when sudden weird jitters start to appear on a circuit like that, it's better to get the hell out of the building :-)

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Years ago when I used to do some repairs for my buddies, I had one bring me a guitar amplifier. He could not use it because it was feed back, even when nothing plugged into it. He also noted when tapping on the cabinet, it was perfectly microphonic.

When I finally found the problem, it was a transistor in a plastic package. The package was fine and so was the transistor but something inside broke loose and was playing with the beta and made a perfect microphone.

I used that transistor in an FM oscillator and it worked perfectly as a bug!..

Jamie

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Grin... well can you turn the lemon into lemonade? some sort of vibration sensor... upthread tm said to heat it above it Curie temperature.

George H.

Grin... well can you turn the lemon into lemonade? some sort of vibration sensor... upthread tm said to heat it above it Curie temperature.

George H.

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With a DC voltage applied. Allow it to cool with the DC applied and it should become very microphonic. Put an audio tone on it and you should hear it sing. Usually a soldering iron will get it hot enough but the material makes a difference.

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Yeah I was going to ask what the curie temperature is? Is there a better 'flavor'?

Thanks, George H.

Whoopie doo... This thread is about the change in ceramic capacitor capacitance values as a function of DC bias, so why on earth is your phototransistor circuit relevant?

It's all about "podium"... the inadequate need it perpetually renewed. ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

AFAIK, barium titanate and related blends are in the 120C+ range, maybe

200C tops. Comparable to ferrites. They're definitely annealed in soldering, the chips at least.

If you have old discs that aren't measuring right, you can try soldering them, I suppose the mass and size of the disc may prevent the whole thing from heating up.

Tim

Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com

You're whining again. What do you have to say about capacitor dielectrics?

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

And what do you have to say about capacitors?

Sad old fool.

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

--- So, instead of admitting that your statement was self-serving and irrelevant, you dodge by pulling your one-trick pony out of the barn and have him whinny the "whine" word? How typically Larkinistic!

As for the dielectrics themselves, instead of wasting a lot of my time trying to reason with a hostile "client",

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and

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are good tutorials, with the latter illustrating the voltage coefficient of capacitance of the dielectric,

as does:

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from within

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However, the underlying cause of the parametric capacitance isn't gone into, and might be worth discussing if you can keep a civil tongue in your head.

Otherwise, f*ck off.

-- JF

So, when pushed into a corner, you can actually use google.

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

You don't really want to discuss electronics, then, you just want to bicker and make things unpleasant for the group.

Hey, *that* was funny. Not creative, but funny.

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

You ought to know that Larkin _never_ puts forth anything that can be substantiated. ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

What's actually going on here is that you have fallen so far behind the times, become so specialized, that you can understand only a small fraction of what's posted here. That's why you stay out of the more interesting threads, or only make lame posts about your Lexus and killing liberals and stuff.

Getting obsolete is a hazard of getting older. You've got to fight it.

John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators

Piezo elements are too expensive I presume? :-)

Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------

I use them in a design for detecting pressing a 'button' through metal. If that isn't sub-Hertz... and the signal is pretty decent. Maybe they work better if you stick them on a medium (plastic) which can be warped a bit by the sound pressure.

Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------

Take apart one of those piezo butane lighters and get a whole stack of them.

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