Calculators

Maybe:

The reviews for Kirkland and Duracell batteries are more or less interchangeable: lots of people (smart people! the best!) calling them leaky pieces of crap.

-- john, KE5FX

That makes no sense. If you fix them, you must surely have seen the battery situation inside??

Thanks for the links...

OMG! I have exactly the same problem here. Clutter will someday kill me, I reckon. One day the house will collapse under the weight of it all and I'll be discovered dead under the wreckage, half-eaten by my alsatian.

I really appreciate the gesture, Jeff, but I decided some months ago not to take on any more projects, no matter how simple they may appear to fix. So unless you have a grapher in fully working order, please don't feel the need to send any of those "losers" this way. :)

So, which alkaline battery does NOT leak? I have yet to find any.

Batteries leaking in the box seems to be a fairly new phenomenon starting in approximately 1998. All I have is my recollection of how these batteries acted perhaps 20+ years ago. At the time, they would self-discharge somewhat over time, but not leak. Now, they both self-discharge and leak. In my never humble opinion, this is new, and possibly intentional.

Again... Why would Kirkland advertise a 7 year shelf life on the package? My guess(tm) is that they had intentionally reduced the shelf life. The 7 year shelf life marker is actually a warning label. Also, the amount of leakage found: is far more than what I vaguely recall seeing 20+ years ago. I would also guess(tm) that to push such a large amount of KOH out the vent hole requires a substantial volume of gas and far more than whatever hydrogen might be generated by self-discharge. I'm going to put some more of these batteries into an air tight plastic zip-loc bag and try to capture some of this gas. The bag won't hold hydrogen, but might catch whatever the batteries are belching. If the bag inflates like a balloon, I'll know that there's a problem. Ask me again in 7 years.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

I've never seen the inside and have never played with an HP 39GS. I try not to recommend anything that I haven't at least tried using. Most of what I collect are the early HP LED calculators and older LCD variety:

Here's a photo of the HP39GS: I don't see a problem. However, there are several case versions and this one may not be the same as what you propose to buy.

Looks like the only way to get one at a reasonable price is to participate in an auction. Buy-it-now for these seems universally overpriced. Caveat Emptor.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

New ones. Don't let discharged batteries sit in appliances or you're going to lose them.

I haven't seen it, perhaps because I use them fast enough that they don't sit in the drawer for years. I'm not afraid to throw away batteries before they're completely flat.

So they leak and replace the batteries. Pretty cheap advertising.

Right around then the gov't mandated no more mercury in them, which was used to absorb "something" so now all the alkalines leak. I use the Eveready ultimate lithium batts now. Pricey but no leaks. yet.

I haven't seen leakage from Energizers, either alkalines or lithiums. I'm sure they'll all leak if allowed to discharge completely, or if left in the device for decades at a time, or if used under unreasonable environmental conditions. But only Duracells seem to leak for no reason.

I agree that this crap started happening around 1998-2000 or so. If I had to guess, I'd say that the Eveready patented some sort of workaround for the mercury ban and didn't want to license it to their main competitor.

-- john, KE5FX

The pendulum also swings back the other way. I happened to be at Costco today and noticed that both the Kirkland and Duracell batteries are now marked with a 10 year shelf life.

One of the things I like to do is figure out how I would design something like a battery with an intentionally limited lifetime. Making it leak seems like a good way. Have the battery slowly build up internal pressure by generating some kind of gas (not hydrogen). Eventually, the seal will blow out, causing the KOH to leak out of the battery. Battery capacity is mostly unaffected, as I found out when I measured some of the leaky Kirkland batteries. If I want a long life battery, just thicken or tighten the seal. If I want it to blow almost immediately, thin or loosen the seal. Of course, I have no evidence that this is what's happening, but I think dissecting a few batteries might prove illuminating.

There are patents for alkaline cell sealing methods, some of which claim to be "leak proof". If these work, then why are we still seeing leaking alkaline cells?

Seal for alkaline primary battery Leak-proof alkaline cell and its manufacture Leak-proof primary cell Improvements in alkaline cells Alkaline cell closure

Various mercury free alkaline battery patents:

Everything is a conspiracy.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Right. So, how long are alkaline batteries expected to remain new and not leak? Or is it that they are considered new if not used and before they leak? Notice that the right side of the package hasn't been opened.

According to Wikipedia: Self-discharge rate

Sounds like someone needs a catalyst. :)

Well, like you I'm something of a vintage nut. I like old, high-quality stuff as in many cases it remains better than the stuff they make today. Another of my favourite use-every-day-still classic calcs is a Casio er, scientific something-or-other that I've had since new in 1990. It does everything today's scientifics do, but is about 40% smaller and slimmer, giving it a far more elegant look, than the garish, bloated, pink & purple offerings you see hook-hanging in stationary shops these days. How they've got bigger & fatter over the last 27 years with no obvious additional functionality is one of life's mysteries. To me at any rate. :/

Buy them from a retailer where high turnover is expected. Sometimes there are date codes on the packaging but I don't let them sit around for more than a year.

I never buy batteries I'm not going to use within a year. If I do have old ones laying around, I may use them for a short time (like 'D' batteries in flashlights) then pitch them. As I said earlier, they're too cheap to risk a ruined appliance when it's most needed.

We already have one in Santa Cruz CA: Much more fun than watching a plastic bag slowly inflate with gas.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

I'm not that old. Also, if you follow the anatomically correct analogy, I'm a bolt, not a nut.

Likewise. That's why I collect old HP LED type calculators. Seen any products with 2 part injection molded buttons and gold plated PCB's lately?

You might want to look at the older Casio wristwatch calculators such as the CFX-400. or maybe roll your own: or you could just conglomerate a Raspberry Pi and a small LCD display and make your own graphing calculator: (25:01) Skip to 1:46 to see what it looks like.

However, those are probably too modern for your ancient junk fetish. Fortunately, even old junk can be glorified and reborn as Steam Punk. This allows you to camouflage modern electronics under a thin veneer of antique looking crap. The best of both worlds. Some example calculators: Start with a modern graphing calculator, some junk hardware, brass hardware, hot melt glue, rust colored paint, and someone with artistic talent. Have them designe and glue together a Steam Punk calculator which a casual observer might suspect to have been built during the Victorian era. Perception is everything, impress your friends and neighbors, form trumps function, etc...

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Me thinks he wants a (dedicated?) hand-held.

You can still get quite convincing simulation apps for smartphones and Android tablets for various popular HP calculators but I favoured TI59.

I still have a wafer thin solar powered one from my time in Japan which is now getting to the end of its tether but was fun while it lasted.

--
Regards, 
Martin Brown

I like the 11C but the real thing is much better (it would be even nicer with a larger display ;-).

You might find the offerings at

interesting. The 42 clone that will be out sometime soon (?) will have a larger display too.