Air Conditioning

LOL! You agonize over millicents on your BOM, then throw it all away on soap!

I have micotoxosis, which is a serious allergy to the toxins on ordinary household mold spores.

One of the most important sources is the bedding. The spores are activated by body heat and moisture, and you spend most of the night breathing in the spores. So I need to wash my entire bedding after each use.

This means I must do 4 to 6 complete loads of wash each day.

Fortunately, my landlord gave permission to do laundry in my apartment, otherwise the cost of a commercial laundromat would be prohibitive.

I need to ensure there is enough soap to remove the spores from the previous night, so I need to be sure to use enough soap to do the job. Unfortunately, I am also sensitive to the chemicals used in soap, so I need to minimize the amount as much as possible.

Fortunately, I have a number of ways of solving these conflicting demands.

The Maytag washer drains into the bathtub, so I can watch the exhaust and see how much soap remains after each rinse.

I can also touch the fluid and see how soapy it feels. Finally, if I get it wrong in either direction, I get very sick either from the mold toxins or from the chemicals, so I know immediately when I make a mistake, and what I did wrong.

After finding the trick about priming the washer, I did a study of all the available laundry detergents. After much effort, I found there were two inexpensive brands that worked well. One was XTRA 2X that cost around $3.67 in the local shops:

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The other was Arm & Hammer Essentials that was on sale recently for about $2.50:

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The recommended HE brands were much more expensive. Some were more than $25.00.

But they did not do any better than the two cheapest ones shown above.

So the money you spend on the HE soap is wasted. Most of the soap is also wasted, since nobody recommends filling the exit chamber before starting the wash, and you need to use a lot more soap. Since the amount trapped in the fabric is uncontrolled, you can get large variations in cleaning unless you use even more soap to compensate.

And for those who have chemical sensitivities, using a lot of soap can make things worse.

So every time you do a new BOM, think about the money you waste on the overpriced HE soap! And what this does to the environment.

Regards,

Mike

Reply to
Mike
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That's because I don't have to wash 5000 shirts per month :-)

Wow! Ok, that's a different story.

That's where we found a difference. The consumption with HE was so much lower.

Ok, out here it's not $25 but even if it was, it's only pennies per load.

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Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

You stated $1000 for the washer. Joseph paid $1000 foer washer _and_ dryer.

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--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

at

Hmm. I suppose I should learn to read.

Reply to
krw

I found no difference using the priming technique.

But I don't think you are getting down to 12.5ml for a full load.

Regards,

Mike

Reply to
Mike

Joerg,

In case you haven't got them already, here are some files for the Maytag MHWE200XW:

Operating Instructions and Fault Codes

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Maytag Parts List

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Warranty (Includes French version)

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Installation, Use and Care Guide, PDF version

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Installation, Use and Care Guide, DJV version

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DJV offers OCR on scanned pdf's, much faster scrolling, usually much smaller file size. This is important for those on 128GB SSDs. You can get WinDjView here:

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ew-2.0.1-Setup.exe"

Regards,

Mike

Reply to
Mike

Thanks, Mike, I had those already. Not the DJV version but PDF is fine.

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Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

Oops. Turns out that is the 64-bit version. There is no mention if it works on 32-bit XP. If you have problems, try this version:

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Thanks,

Mike

Reply to
Mike

Forgive my ignorance, I'm just a non-domesticated bachelor who buys whatever detergent is at a convenient shelf height at the supermarket.

High explosive laundry detergent?

;-)

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"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
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Reply to
Fred Abse

Apparently, with new high efficiency washers you have to buy special detergent or they (literally) stink. Personally, I don't see the problem with running a bit more diluted version of the same stuff out through the water treatment plant-- the contaminant mass is unchanged. I suppose water/sewer bills could be reduced, but that's down in the noise in my area.

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

If you're really aren't leash trained, just use TSP. In fact, TSP is great for dish washers. Add about 1/3 to the crap from the store and it'll be just as good as real dish washer detergent.

"High-energy" == marketeer-speak for "low-sudsing".

Reply to
krw

I'd be the same if I wasn't married. :-)

As Keith hinted, the machine could do an over-sudsing shutdown with regular detergent. Unless you use nifty measuring tricks like Mike. But since we don't have as much laundry as he does and didn't want to make a science project out of it we just bought what the manual said we should buy. At first my reaction when looking at the price tags was "WHAT?!" but after this package lasted a whole year I am certainly not complaining. Less schlepping of heaving packages, too.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply to
Joerg

The first thing I object to is the claim that you must use it in a front load otherwise nasty things will happen. This is certainly not true.

Ordinary detergent works just fine as long as you remember to prime the exit cavity and use a miniscule amount, which you should do anyway.

Nothing bad happens with plain detergent. You don't get the suds fault, you don't get a bad smell, and the machine does not self-destruct.

I think the complaints of a bad smell are due to bacterial or fungal growth behind the drum or in the exit plumbing. I'm sure doing a load and adding ordinary bleach will kill anything lurking in the machine.

I really like the way Maytag handles the bleach. They only allow you to use a small amount, and they add it after the main wash cycle so it has minimal interaction with the detergent. The detergent contains chemicals and enzymes that combine with the bleach and destroy the effectiveness, so when it is added during the wash cycle, it is immediately rendered useless. But Maytag adds it when most of the detergent is already rinsed out, and they immediately flush the bleach out so it cannot harm the fabric. I'm sure it would not harm white sheets and pillowcases and towels, but it definitely will kill any bacteria or fungal growth that can cause an odor.

The second complaint is the price for HE is much higher than ordinary detergent. There is no justification for this. It is ordinary detergent formulated to reduce suds. It does not work any better than plain detergent. It is just a simple ripoff, the same as when they come out with new packaging that reduces the amount of the product, and they charge a higher price.

This is not a science project. It is simply fighting the tricks the vendors use constantly to reduce the quality and content and increase the price.

If you let them, they will empty your pocketbook and ask for more. You have to put your foot down and stop them. Find a different product that does the same or better, or find a different way of accomplishing the same thing.

Regards,

Mike

Reply to
Mike

Another thought just struck me.

You guys who are married turn all the houseld stuff over to your wives. You have no idea how much the vendors are ripping you off, and you simply give your wife access to all the bank accounts. The deal is you fill them and she empties them.

You never have the time to see what is actually going on, and your wife, bless her, does not have an engineering background to see there may be huge savings by taking a close look at how the vendors are gouging you. You have much more important things on your mind, like how to win the next raise so you can continue to live in the manner you have been acustomed to.

Us single guys have a different perspective. As engineers, we are trained to question things and to look for anomalies. When we find them, they can often lead to a breakthrough in technology.

It is no different when you have to do your own shopping. The observation that something is out of whack and needs fixing applies everywhere.

And fixing it can pay huge dividends!

Regards,

Mike

Reply to
Mike

They stink even with the "high efficiency" detergents. You have to run a cleaner through them once a month or they get positively rancid. Apparently they don't drain all the water, like the top-loaders do. There is also a problem with mold growing under the front seals. The recommendation is to clean them after every load.

Reply to
krw

"Give your wife access to all the bank accounts". That's just too funny! First, we're married. I don't "give" her what's her's. Perhaps you think the government "gives" you rights, or "gives" you a tax break.

Second, I'm lucky *I* have access to the bank accounts. ;-)

There are important things and unimportant things. The cost of detergent is way down the list of unimportant things.

Even if I were single, I wouldn't have nearly enough time to worry about what laundry detergent to use. I am, five days a week, now, and I can assure you that what soap to use doesn't get allocated nearly as many neurons as which frozen pizza to buy. ;-)

You have *way* too much time on your hands. You need a house, or two.

$20/year is huge? If you say so.

Reply to
krw

The claim that front load washers require special suds-free detergent is not true. The HE detergent costs a lot more, but it does not work any better than ordinary detergent,and neither have anything to do with odor.

Ordinary detergent works fine if you take a second to prime the exit plumbing before starting the wash. Now you need much less detergent, perhaps one-tenth of the amount you customarily use.

The same trick works on top loaders. All you need to do is fill the exit plumbing, and the soap no longer bypasses the laundy and ends up in the plumbing where it can do nothing to help wash your clothes.

There is little gain for the environment if only one or two people use this trick. But if everyone took a careful look at how much detergent they waste and ends up in the environment, then priming the plumbing could have a major effect. It has no effect on the total amount of water used since the plumbing needs to be filled in either case.

The conventional recommendation from soap vendors is why so many people put far too much detergent in their laundry.

But consider what would happen if everyone reduced the amount of detergent they flush into the water treatment plants.

A 90%, or even 75% reduction in harmful chemicals that are difficult to treat could have a significant effect on costs throughout the chain.

The only people who disagree would be the soap vendors.

Regards,

Mike

Reply to
Mike

part

I must not be very wide then! Mikek

Reply to
amdx

I'm located in North Florida, high humidity and high temps, although temps are moderated by ocean water environment. I had a 20+ year old air conditioner. It worked as expected but I feel much more comfortable when the humidity is low. After putting up for 15 years with what I considered comfortable temperature but uncomfortable humidity I bought a dehumidifier. I ran the dehumidifier at 40% humidity and I could raise the home temp 4 to 5 degrees and still feel comfortable. (74 up to 78) The downside, the area where the dehumidifier was placed got hot. Last year we got a new ac unit, the new ac unit does a great job with humidity. Most of the time I have the thermostat set a 78*. If the outdoor temp is not high I might move it as low as 76*. When it is very hot the ac runs enough that the humidity is low and I'm happy I bought a new ac unit.

Mikek

Reply to
amdx

=20

odor.

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=46our things: Why not make smarter washers that auto prime? How about rerouting the water paths so that the sump gets used for the wash water? How about a one minute delay before adding the wash/rinse additives are added to the tub? How do you get intrinsically lazy people to wake up?

Reply to
josephkk

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