Affordable PCB Layout Software ???

'Till your mention, hadn't come across it before. Just trying the demo'. Seems fast, no fluff. I really like the milling and HPGL stuff , though can't seem to find any library items.

It is true the UI takes a bit of

Excuse me, sir, but the English logic of those sentences say that the "getting used to" has been "greatly increased". That means that it is HARDER to use than before. Is that what you really meant?

Other than the fact that you peddle it and make money at it, why would you say that "different" was "good"? Most of us who make our trains run on standard dimension tracks find that we don't derail nearly as often as those who use a "different" gauge standard.

Lemmee tell you why it is "different". That's because die DSCHERMANN ingineers can't stand to let well enough alone. It is DSCHERMANN INGINEERING that Eagle is being choked by, not by the program itself. I haven't met a DSCHERMANN ingineer yet that doesn't despise anything invented outside DSCHERRMANY. Put a couple of Brits, Aussies, and 'mericans to rewriting it and in six months you might have something worth selling.

We didn't give a royal rat's hiney about the "big boys" in this thread. Get off your horse and answer the challenge --- Eagle is a pain in the ass to use. Now I agree...I had Eagle from nearly ten years ago and detested it so much that I haven't been back since. But in that time I've done beta work for both Number 1 (Easy-pc) and Microcode (Circuitmaker) and I can tell you that out-of-the-box I was able to have a working relationship with both these programs in a weekend. Eagle jerked me around for nearly a month, and I STILL can't make heads or tails out of it.

(BTW, not to encourage software piracy, but both Circuitmaker and Traxmaker

That caused what? That's an incomplete sentence.

I bought a license. 10 years ago. Eagle 2 as I vaguely recall. I have no idea where the license or the disk is; I may have destroyed them in a fit of frustration. Do you have a list of prior customers so that I can have a look at your latest revision?

Jim

That is a really bad analogy. Sometimes different is better. Sometimes different is a *lot* better. At one time, CAD was "different" and "standard" was schematics drawn in pencil on large sheets of expensive paper, copies that smelled of ammonia and layouts done with tape on large sheets of expensive plastic.

The use of "cute" mis-spelling does not hide the fact that the above is pure emotion that is totally devoid of logic or evidence. There are good products and bad products from Germany, and there are good products and bad products from Australia, the USA or the UK.

If you had left out all the name calling and simply wrote the above in a calm, reasoned manner, your argument would have been far stronger.

It would be helpful if you were to specify how long ago your bad experience with EAGLE was so that we can evaluate how well your comments apply to the latest version.

The library is extensive, and super-easily accessed, extended, and modified: items pop up in a toolbar on the right-hand side of the screen.

Options-->Show Macro-Library.

(I'm not sure how much library you get with the demo.)

Oh, it's limited to four trace layers, if that's a problem for some. It's not for me. Large boards are fine, metric or english units, etc.

I've more than recouped my 39 euros just in the time saved learning the program and its ease of use -- it's logical and clean to where I've scarcely needed to check the help files. Just click the icons, and it does what I want. Fast.

It really is a sweet program.

Cheers, James Arthur

Thanks for pointing out the typo. Even without the typo I should have explained more, but I was rushed. So let me expand just a bit.

Most modern GUI's are based around the idea that you pick the object (think right-click on a desktop) and then select the function (delete, copy, ...). But when entering schematics and laying out a board, one usually wants to perform the same function many times on multiple objects. So that is how EAGLE has traditionally functioned: pick function then apply to multiple objects until another function is picked.

But with newbies who are used to object selecting this seems odd and takes some getting used to. EAGLE 5 now allows the user to do both: right click and pick function or use the traditional EAGLE model which is actually more efficient once you get the hang of it.

You may or may not like it, that is fine. But the basics are the basics and EAGLE isn't that complicated. There is a good tutorial that comes with EAGLE that takes about an hour and does a pretty good job of introducing the basics.

CadSoft (a completely separate business entity) does have a database of license owners. The license card is the primary method of establishing ownership for upgrade pricing, though I haven't had anyone ask about the pricing from EAGLE 2. I'm sure there are other ways to establish ownership in extreme cases but that would be up to CadSoft to determine.

If you want to see the latest revision just download from cadsoftusa.com. The freeware version will run fine and the license can be upgraded without needing a reinstall.

Cheers,

James.

No sir, most modern GUIS are based on LEFT click on the object, which is one of the fundamental things that your GHERMANN ingineers can't comprehend.

Jim

The almost total absence of inter- operability is probably the main factor. You soon build up a whole lot of designs that you need to continue to support. There's no chance for the most part of transferring them to a new system, so unless there's an overwhelming reason (you acn't get by without a feature that's not supported, or the vendor goes bust), there's a positive disincentive to change.

JS

Give a try to Proteus

Robert

"Blackwater" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@news.east.earthlink.net...

design

How would Proteus compare to the combo OrCAD Schematich and PCB? I am still running V9.2 here and am very reluctant to upgrade to Cadence.

But I also have a lot of designs in OrCAD....

Meindert

I tried KiCad last night, but I'm not that impressed. The user interface is a bit clumsy and I can't find shortcuts. I like CAD software where most elementary operations have shortcuts so you don't need the mouse too much.

Take a look at FreePCB. Nearly all of the commands are through the Fx keys. In fact, the original versions did not support many commands via the right mouse button or through the menus. In fact, you couldn't even click the hot key labels at the bottom of the screen. That has been changed so that you typically have three options on how to invoke a command and many have four (menu, right click menu, clickable hot key label and the hot key itself).

I have been using it enough that I am used to it. There were a few things I had to get used to, but *nothing* like learning Eagle. I think the one that bothered me the most is that when you click something on the screen, if there is overlap it will select a part first. This can make it hard to select a net or vertex. But that is solved by using the selection mask on the left side of the screen. So it works pretty well and a lot of the rough edges have been smoothed off.

Since it is not commercial software, but rather a program that was written for the author to use, it gets changed when a rough edge is pointed out. You don't have to deal with a bureaucracy to get something improved.

There is a Yahoo group for support, or better, the forum on the freepcb.com web page which is very active. A couple of people write supporting software to provide XYRS files, documentation and the like. All in all it is pretty sweet!

Rick

snipped-for-privacy@barrk.net (Blackwater) wrote in news:489081d0.15733031 @news.east.earthlink.net:

=?ISO-8859-15?Q?R=FCdiger?= Leibrandt wrote in news:g6q1nv$5bk$ snipped-for-privacy@fortuna.zfn.uni-bremen.de:

Hello everyone,

Some time back, I was looking into Eagle and ran across some complaints about intellectual property rights. Here is a link to the one that stuck in my mind.

Has anyone using Eagle run into problems?

Robert

Interesting product! The prices seem quite reasonable for what you get.

Current prices:

For 150 Pounds Sterling (~300 UD Dollars) you get:

For 295 Pounds Sterling (~590 US Dollars) you get: The above features, except 1000 pins maximum.

For 395 Pounds Sterling (~790 US Dollars) you get: The above features, except 2000 pins maximum.

For 595 Pounds Sterling (~1190 US Dollars) you get:

For 995 Pounds Sterling (~1980 US Dollars) you get: The above features, except 2000 pins maximum.

For 1225 Pounds Sterling (~2450 US Dollars) you get: The above features with unlimited pins.

All of the above come with basic simulation. For advanced simulation, add 195 Pounds Sterling (~390 US Dollars).

Thet also offer Microcontroller Simulation for ARM, AVR, HC11, PIC, 8051, Basic Stamp and USB at prices ranging from 150 Pounds Sterling (~300 US Dollars) to 395 Pounds Sterling (~790 US Dollars).

A free demo is available (save and print disabled).

References:

The Pulsonix software I use does a good job importing OrCAD designs:

Leon

I have to say that is one of the stranger marketing concepts I have ever heard of. Provide free software so that your potential customers can use your services, but cripple it for their first order!

When you say crippled, is that in terms of functionality or working with a third party?

Rick

JSprocket wrote:

I noted before how an inciteful bureaucrat had the opportunity (and I'll extend that to *the responsibility*) to make this right way back in the dark ages:

rickman wrote in news:360a548d-d9e3-4fcf-8200- snipped-for-privacy@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

first

It starts out fully functional for use with 4PCB, but it won't produce Gerber files. After you purchase one board from 4PCB, it will produce Gerber files.

It's not that bad an idea. You have to produce a reasonably-priced board with 4pcb, the guys that gave you the software, then you can use it with whoever you want.

Here's the un-broken link about Cadsoft's DRM:

I assume you're using Outbreaks In Excess to read Usenet. 8-(