For Sale: MM5837 White Noise Generator 8 pin IC chips - National Semiconductor

Repeatedly spams non-*marketplace* groups:

The charter for this group:

*-*+only-advertise+sci.electronics.components-Integrated-*-*-*+individual-parts+*.*.not.a.forsale.group+zz-zz+Discussion

"How NOT to Advertise on Usenet" by Joel K. Furr http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:CMU1z-5ywJ4J:shopsite.com/help/4.1/sc/lte/usenet.html+rude.to.advertise.*.*+*-*-*-*-*-*-the-word-forsale-or-marketplace-in-their-names+preserve.*.culture.of.open.discussion+reads.*.advertisement+zzz+*.most.pervasive.form.*.*.*.*-*+How-*-to-Advertise-on-Usenet+biz+hated+rude+lose-*-account

I'm sorry, am I not allowed to advertise here? I did not mean to offend anyone, but people have posted here previously asking for these parts. I was just letting everyone know that I have them for sale.

Thanks,

"Keinert" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

If you know of specific calls for a part, you can always reply directly to the call. As that is solicited response, it immediately becomes not-spam.

innews: snipped-for-privacy@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

I understand. It is just as rude however, to change a topic heading to "Bad Vendor" when this was my first post to this group and I had no prior warnings from others, nor did I know of this policy. Thanks, Kevin.

innews: snipped-for-privacy@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

No, it's about keeping the neighborhood clean.

The default is that advertising is not allowed in newsgroups. If you didn't get a warning when you first came to the newsgroups, then it's a reflection of the state of the internet today.

If nobody like Jeff points out that ads don't belong here, then nobody will know that ads don't belong. They'll see your post, or you'll see some previous post, and think "there's an ad, I can post an ad too".

Your prior warning is in Jeff's ongoing campaign about this. If you didn't see one of his previous replies to a previous ad, then you haven't actually spent any time reading this newsgroup. And tradition is that not only are ads out of place unless specifically allowed, but a newcomer should read a newsgroup for a decent amount of time before posting, so they can get a feel for the newsgroup (to see what's on and off-topic, and because each newsgroup has a unique identity that is separate from the actual topic of the newsgroup).

"People have asked about this device before"? Yes, but in 2005 and then before that 2003 and then 1999, and so forth. That's a long time for a newsgroup, chances are those who asked are long gone, and certainly they aren't likely to still be looking for the device; either they've found one long ago, or given up on the project.

The fact that you would seem to have done a search, why else would you know the part has been talked about here before when you admit to never posting before?, is an indication that your first priority is finding a place to sell the parts, not being helpful to someone who asked two or more years ago about the device.

Jeff's "rudeness" is because too many people post without thinking, too many think the newsgroups are a great place to place free ads, too many post without reading.

Realistically, one can now look at a post and make a good guess on where it's coming from, based on the actual post. Google has made it way too easy for people to post, and let's them post without really saying much about what they are about to do.. ANd just as I guessed, you did post from google. Google is part of the ongoing problem, because they are usually the cause of posts that don't belong in a given newsgroup. The frequency increases, and then people like Jeff are dismissed as "rude" because all the individual off-topic posters see is the response to their post, and don't realize they are contributing to an ongoing problem that isn't likely to ease up.

Michael

Any electronics related sale messages belong on or

for Google users.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

innews: snipped-for-privacy@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:

We have times were some vendors ignore the rules for the group, so a lot of the regulars take a hard stand against ads to keep the group from becoming unusable. The redirect to: news:misc.industry.electronics.marketplace should have been posted first, though.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

The redirect to:

All, Thanks for that very detailed responses, they obviously took time. Once again, sorry to offend. Also, thanks for the note on "industry.electronics.marketplace" group, I did not know that it existed. I will post there in the future. Kevin.

It does depend on the individual newsgroup charter, and the OP had the courtesy to ask, although was shown little courtesy in response.....

Peter

-- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk

"The default is that advertising is not allowed in newsgroups". Which means that people seeking places to advertise can't assume advertising is allowed, they have to make sure. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. The clueless seeking places to advertise aren't even likely to know what a charter is, because things have moved so far from the old days. Half the time (maybe more) people aren't even aware what they are posting to when they use google.

I should point out that lots of charters do not mention advertising at all, one way or another, because when many of the newsgroups were created the issue was absolute, no advertising. They had no reason to specifically mention advertising because "no advertising" existed at a higher level than a newsgroup charter. If a charter doesn't say "no advertising" that still doesn't mean advertising is allowed, it just means the charter didn't mention it.

In the old days, you'd get your internet access and Usenet was part of what you'd get. Whether or not you used it, if you had internet access you'd likely at least know about Usenet. So when you dialed in to your ISP, a newsreader would be set up for you, and likely a few newsgroups would be subscribed to, the selection likely being the places you'd find out about Usenet, and maybe a local to the ISP newsgroup so you could meet your neighbors and get help when starting out. YOu could easily read the FAQ for the newsgroup, if there was one, since one of those select newsgroups you were pre-subscribed to included the one where FAQs were posted to (and it's been so long I can't remember the name of the newsgroup). You'd likely find material on starting out on Usenet, too.

WHen you signed up at your ISP, someone might have said something to you about Usenet. At the very least, that book you bought about using the internet would have a chapter, and would tell you not only the history (going back to 1979) of Usenet, but the etiquette and other tips to getting started.

Now, people stumble on "google groups" and post away, without any of the handholding, or knowledge before the deed.

"I thought advertising was allowed" is only an excuse today, because people aren't going through those intermediate steps before they get here. They can post away cluelessly because they can honestly say that they had no idea. But that doesn't make it right.

And at which point did the poster ask if ads were acceptable here? Not in his first post about this IC. Now maybe I missed some general question that he posted before, but I don't see it now.

I know that if he'd posted a question like "Are ads allowed here" I would have said no, and I would have posted the link to Mark Zenier's guide to the sci.electronics.* hierarchy, ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/m/mzenier/seguide9706.txt which I've done often enough over the years.

People are trying to talk before they can walk, and their rudeness means little while someone like Jeff who's trying to ensure others don't follow with the advertising (he changes the subject header, so people will catch on that ads don't belong without having to read the message) is dismissed as "rude".

Let's get it straight. If some guy walks down the street and tosses his litter on the sidewalk, he's the antisocial one. Anyone who tells him to stop is not being rude or antisocial, they are the responsible ones.

Michael

I really like the way Black explains these things.

Here was my try at an analogy:

*-*-*-*+worst-*-*-*-*-*+incidentally+zz-zz+actively-engaging+PARTICIPATING+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-PLASTER-*-*

It 's a shame Google doesn't make people click thru this page http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:ohQq8nqqThwJ:groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=46492+don't-use-Usenet-as-an-advertising-medium+Usenet+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-telemarketer+2006+be.interested+inappropriate-commercial-messages (set up as a checklist) BEFORE granting initial Usenet access.

Thank you for your support.