IMSI Instant Engineer: Ok for simple dwgs?

Hello again,

Regarding:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 07:38:52 GMT, Joerg wrote: [snip]

I have been shopping for a new CAD program. Here are some of the results of my search to get you started:

N.B. a. Order is mostly random. b. I tried all of the programs mentioned, but not necessarily extensively or the most recent versions. c. All offer AutoCAD file format import/export (YMMV). d. Given your stated preferences, you might want to give particular attention to DeltaCAD. e. You should inspect the EUA and copyright method of ANY software package before buying it! Example: DeltaCAD and, if I recall correctly, DesignCAD have an excessively restrictive EUA in that you are only supposed to install the program on one computer, but this rule isn't enforced by their copy protection mechanism. The CAD programs Concepts Unlimited/3d/2d have a like-a-book sort of license, but (I'm told) the software must be activated on each computer.

Possibly the cheapest of the IntelliCAD based CAD pkgs available. (Of course, they may have other merits. Or one of the (not terribly) more expensive compilations may be better suited to your uses/tastes). AutoCAD-like user interface.

Also produces AutoCAD'ish CAD software. IMHO, seems a notch higher in quality than the IntelliCAD versions. Caution: The 3D features in the Pro version are incomplete; it does 3D rendering swell, but some necessary solids editing features are missing. Note: Can interact with surveying stuff. Don't know details; don't care.

Very cheap. Win95 - Vista compatible. Probably as easy to use as any (2D) CAD system could be, but still has lots of features. Probably not under active development; probably doesn't need active development. Might be, though.

Has most clever, refined CAD user interface ever? 2D only, and very expensive (>$1000?)! Note: They may still offer significant -- but not significant enough

-- discount for upgrades. Hint: Limited versions of SmartSketch could be found bundled with older version of MathCAD for Windows (second hint: think ebay ;-).

Was an expensive(ish), professional grade CAD program. Oodles of 2D drawing commands; significant 3d capabilities ("3D MAX versions). Has built-in, customizable plot file generator: particularly handy for some applications. Efficient user interface; product of years of refinement (and some years of degradation). Program was sold repeatedly; numerous subsequent owners have taken it down market. Much, much cheaper now. Last two version releases were buggy and clearly done only to generate revenue. Future? (Does it matter?)

Purchased by Punch Software. Mac & Win versions available. Three different programs: Concepts Unlimited (nearly $2k!), Concepts 3D ($299?), and Concepts 2D ($99?). The Unlimited version does 2D & 3D drafting and photo realistic rendering (?); The 3D does 2D and 3D drafting/etc., but lacks the model space/paper space feature (for lack of a better succinct term), the 2D version does 2D drafting, but also has the model/paper space abilities missing from the 3D version (you can always buy both ;-). Most remarkable for their extensive 3D modeling and file export abilities (in a product of its price class).

On the Radar:

Since it is being released by Punch, who also purchased CSI-Concepts, I'm hoping that Punch's ViaCAD (which may or may not be related to Upperspace's extinct ViaCAD) will include Concepts 2D/3D abilities in a more affordable price. We'll see...

General: As you're particularly keen on AutoCAD file compatibility, you may wish to visit

and consider the offerings from their "members."

Happy shopping!

Cordially Richard Kanarek

I usually don't accept activate-on-one-machine versions. I always keep licenses legal, there is nobody here who could use it in parallel but I must be able to load it onto a laptop for the road and also onto a desktop for easier viewing. If they don't allow that then the sales concept is IMHO seriously flawed. IOW if they don't seem to understand how CAD is frequently used I have my doubts about their ability to design a system that works for people like me.

$417 is a bit much for something that will be used once in a blue moon.

LT seems to start at $99 which is reasonable.

Could fit the bill. The examples look a bit crude though with their jagged lines and all that.

$1500? I don't think so ... :-)

The price is certainly right and so far I was happy with IMSI (but it seems they bought this from another company). Thing is, if the last versions are indeed buggy the only way to get an older one that works seems to be EBay.

"Connection refused". Not a good sign :-(

Pretty amazing that Verizon is a member there.

Thank you for the exhaustive and very informative post. Mechanical CAD is quite foreign to me so that helps a lot.

Greetings,

Of course, I agree with you about EUAs/software licenses. If I can read a copyrighted book anywhere I want, I should be able to use a copyrighted software program on any computer I want.

Regarding DeltaCAD, the included/displayed sample drawings are admittedly unimpressive. I'm not sure they do the program justice, but (despite having *purchased* the program *twice* over the years/decades) I'm not qualified to judge it. There is a free, time limited trial version available (as there are for most of the other programs I mentioned); you could try it (them) and see.

Regarding DesignCAD, while the latest version was flawed upon release, I believe that the patches that have become available render it okay. Since I have DCAD 14, and since DCAD 14 has a better help system, I have not been using version 17. While I think that, as a DesignCAD beginner, you'd be better off with DCAD 14 ("3D max" or "(2D)Express"), I don't think you need to be afraid of version 17. You may even want to upgrade to version 17 (assuming all goes well), on the chance that the later program might have (even) better AutoCAD file compatibility.

Oh, and about finding DCAD 14:

Regarding Concepts U/3/2, I've never had trouble reaching

(just tried it again: okay); are you sure all is okay on your end?

Glad to have been of any small help!

Cordially, Richard Kanarek

Then you should definitely be an expert on that program. It's just puzzling why they put up such crummy drawings as examples. But if you bought it then the SW must be good.

Reminds me of a reporter who had to live in Moscow with his family for a stint when the iron curtain was still there. For his kind of job he needed a car. Went to a Lada dealership. That was pretty much the only mainstream brand you could buy, meaning competition didn't exist. There were four different color models available and on display. One had a flat tire. Another was missing both wipers and it was raining. The third had a big dent. So they asked whether they could test drive number four. "Sure". Turned the key, nada, zilch. It didn't start. Other than that those cars were supposedly pretty sturdy.

Thanks. Are those companies reputable? Tried a few. No addresses on the sites, never heard of them...

Now it works.

Thank you, it sure was helpful.

[snip] [snip]

I thought this line of reasoning might occur to you, which is why I warned against it.

The first time I purchased a license was on a lark, to run on a Win

3.1 computer (no, the purchase wasn't recent ;-). I discovered that I preferred (and was used to) my DesignCAD derived CAD software (not to mention my love of good old DOS), so I switched back. My second purchase was far more recent, but otherwise similar. So, though I have used DeltaCAD -- BRIEFLY, twice -- I am certainly no expert. Indeed, my multiple purchases of DeltaCAD are (if you follow my reasoning) more of a tribute to DesignCAD than to DeltaCAD itself.

Still, DeltaCAD does seem to match your stated needs/desires rather well. It seems capable, reasonably straight forward to use (good for infrequent users, presumably), and cheap. As I recall, the new version also includes a copy of the Win 3.1 version, in case you want to follow in my footsteps. You could do worse than to try it, but DO please yourself!

I have no idea! I hope I didn't imply that I was recommending any of the companies listed!

I have done business with the following company. It may or may not have insisted upon sending me e-mail ads against my wishes, but I can't recall (I know one company did ;-). I'm pretty sure I would remember if it had absconded with my loot!

DesignCAD 15.3 3D MAX $8.95 + Shipping (DCAD 14 Training CDROM also available)

DCAD 15's help works, but is less extensive than DCAD 14's (which contained tutorials and more in addition to help). DCAD 15 may have additional features over DCAD 14. You can download DCAD 14's help file from "

" (towards bottom of page) and use it separately, outside DCAD 15, if you wish.

Cordially, Richard Kanarek

Some would not even take credit cards, only Paypal. Strange.

Thanks! I just ordered it there. Didn't get the training CD because I am not a fan of long narrated sessions. All I want to do is sketch ideas, IOW replace the DOS TurboCad. What is nice about DesignCAD is that it allows to scan in a hand drawing and build the final version from that scan. Very handy when coming back from a trip without laptop. Or when you have to work off some really old drawing from the days when CAD meant slide rule calculator.

Oh, and Purplus has a Logitech QuickCam on sale for $8.95 so I threw that in as well. It's missing the stand, maybe that is why they sell them so low. Who cares? I am going to try whether I can do SMT assembly without those 3x glasses, using camera and laptop. Supposedly does

640*480 which would be great. It's a CMOS sensor so will be grainy with low light but that wouldn't be an issue here.

I have also seen a long PDF manual for DesignCad 14 somewhere. That should help as well. Usually I figure it all out somehow. When I bought Eagle I just loaded it and then stepped on it. I did eventually read the book that came with it and I learned things from it but the only reason was that a back problem had floored me for a few days.

JeffM wrote

john jard>Don't know if you've had to program a DXF file converter

Not so far. **Knocks wood**

Don't you just want to get out your Go To Hell gun at that point? That kind of nonsense is one big reason that my suggestion to Joerg was an open source app. (Well, the *Windoze* build *does* use proprietary developers' tools.)

...then there's M$ and Adobe who constantly *extend* their formats to "improve" their products and coincidently (wink, wink; nudge, nudge) break compatibility with other vendors' stuff.

In the PDF arena I think it's that vendors only implement *parts* of the spec ...then there's the **moving the goal line** thing I mentioned.

WRT *closed* formats, there's a lot of that *parts of the spec* thing going on:

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:G6vZhKnP8msJ:*-*-*-large-portion-*-*-*-*-*+Noel+VBA+Windows+not.complete+qq+Visual-Basic-for-Applications

...and It looks like Joerg has an app lined up--for cheap. Let's see: closed source; no longer under development. Hmmm. It takes all kinds to make a world. 8-)

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:G6vZhKnP8msJ:

*-*-*-large-portion-*-*-*-*-*+Noel+VBA+Windows+not.complete+qq+Visual-Basic-for-Applications

Yep, just ordered DesignCad as Richard had suggested. I've never had any bad luck with apps that are no longer under development. Heck, I am using some where development has ended more than a decade ago ;-)

Thing is, my mechanical CAD needs are quite mundane. If it can't do certain things I won't mind.