Tingles from DVD players

} Message-ID: } From: "Phil Allison" } Newsgroups: aus.electronics } Subject: Re: Tingles from DVD players } Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:35:28 +1100

...

} ** Imagine a hi-fi system with every item in it class 2 - so there is no AC } ground to the metalwork. } } Next, an item is added to the system, ie a nice old valve tuner just bought } from Ebay but with no AC plug. } } Next, the user inadvertently wires up the new plug wrongly with active and } earth reversed and makes all the connections. } } The hi-fi system will still work just as before ( but not the tuner) but } with ALL the metalwork, connecting leads and even the loud speakers now } LIVE !!! } } In countries with 240 volt AC power, this is a FATAL accident scenario } !!!!

There you go "class two appliance connected to a live conductor" (an incorrectly wired class one appliance) are you going to argue that the connectors on it aren't live conductors?

In that case there's an awful lot of non-compliant equipment out there.

Bye. Jasen

Reply to
Jasen Betts
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Bye. Jasen

Reply to
Jasen Betts

"Chris Jones"

** Making a task unnecessarily difficult for someone else is the act of complete asshole.

Bing smug about it is even worse.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

"Malcolm Moore"

** That does not make even the slightest sense.

A complete non sequitur.

** Many other ways for the same outcome to occur.

Class 1 items rely on the earth wire to prevent shock in case of internal failures.

** One seriously compromises the safety of a class 2 item by connecting its metal case to a class 1 item.

Same as "de-earthing" a class 1 item *seriously* compromises its safety in the event of some internal failure.

Go figure out why class 2 was ever invented.

......... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

"Chris Jones"

** It was a whole load of irrelevant shit.

** Only binding on industry and even then only in a few cases.
** Very bad idea.

** Until the internet arrived laws ( ie legislation) WAS difficult to access .

The public tolerated it just fine for centuries.

Even now, only a tiny few( other than law students & lawyers) ever bother to access the info.

Most of it is FAR to complicated and confusing to the novice.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

"Jasen Bleatts" = Kiwi anencephalic

** What an illiterate IDIOT you are - Jasen !!

The user in MY EXAMPLE connected the various, ground linked class 2 appliances in his audio system to the metalwork of a class 1 item by simply

*plugging the audio and leads in* - thereby connecting the previously non earthed class 2 system to the " supply earth".

The defective wiring of a *single class 1 item* ( it does not matter a HOOT how it got that way) then rendered an entire system live and LETHAL.

** Your raving mad opinion - not mine.

....... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

formatting link
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Judge Alistair MacDuff in the High Court ordered Tracy Williams, a college lecturer from Oldham, in north-west England, to pay £10,000 ($24,000) in damages, plus Mr Keith-Smith's £7200 costs, and told never to repeat the allegations.

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Mr Keith-Smith said he took action after a debate about the Iraq war in

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"She was very pro-[US President George] Bush. Initially, she called me lard brain and I wasn't particularly concerned about that. Then she called me a Nazi," he said.

He has also taken action against a second poster, he said, with whom he claimed to have settled for a sum "in the region of £30,000".

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The Guardian

Oh how all of this sounds sooooo familiar ;-) I wonder if this judge could be tempted to take a working holiday to Oz? ;-)

Cheers TT

Reply to
TT

He was connecting them to a live conductor. he may have considered it to be "supply earth" but it wasn't.

Is that not an example of it being bad to connect the inputs of a Class 2 device to a live conductor. ?

the faulty device would be potentially lethal without conductive connections to other equipment.

if there were two class one items in the setup the fault would have been detected.

are you saying that something compulsory isn't required for compliance? or that for some reason all the other posters who've posted on this subject have an atypical collection of class 2 devices in that practically none of the bear the legend "do not earth"

Bye. Jasen

Reply to
Jasen Betts

"Jasen Bleatts"

= New Zealand's very Worst.

** By accident - F U C K W I T !!!!!!
** I am not saying what I did not say.

Go away - Jasen.

Eat a packet of rat poison - Jasen.

Eat two.

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

Read what i stated.

SO are you suggesting that your laptop connects the serial port to mains earth?

Reply to
The Real Andy

"The Real Andy"

" Jasen Bleatts"

** Watch out - Andy.

Jasen thinks a glass of sheep dip is a aphrodisiac.

...... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

typically it will, but there's no requirement.

(I meant this one isn't isolated from the rest of the laptop)

this one connects it to the chassis, and the laplink cable connects it to the pc which is earthed.

Bye. Jasen

Reply to
Jasen Betts

It is a lost cause, some get it, some dont.

Reply to
The Real Andy

I agree.

An advantage of Electrical Registration in NZ is that the Electrical Workers Registration Board supply free of charge paper copies of the Electricity Regulations, AS/NZS 3000, AS/NZS 3760, and pdfs on a cd of

9 others to registered workers.

Last year they announced an agreement with Standards NZ to give online access for registered workers to all standards referenced in AS/NZS

3000. Unfortunately that hasn't yet occured because there are problems between the two organisations websites.

-- Regards Malcolm Remove sharp objects to get a valid e-mail address

Reply to
Malcolm Moore

"Malcolm Moore" Chris Jones

** LOL

Same way sheep agree !!

** AS/NZS 3000 = Electrical installations (known as the Australian/New Zealand Wiring Rules)

AS/NZS 3760 = In-service safety inspection and testing of electrical equipment.

A complete fool ( like this Malcolm cretin for example) can read the above cover to cover as many times as he likes and still wind up not having a DAMN CLUE about real world electrical safety.

Baaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.....

........ Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

One think i found when getting gear approved in QLD is that the inspector was less aware of the Standards than I was. What is even worse is that he granted an approval on a product that was quite clearly not compliant. I can handle this for a small time production that will never face the public, but the device in question I can guarantee that a significant amount of QLD/VIC public have been exposed too. Fortunately the 'Approved product' was fixed before shipping.

I find it obscure that EMC compliance is more difficult and expensive than electrical compliance. Go figure..

Reply to
The Real Andy

With many items fitting into the non-decalared categories it is common to find that many (and I mean a lot) do not meet essential safety requirements. The inspectors have litle or no idea about such equipment unless they have a lab report in hand. For instance the NSW DFT has a zero budget allocation for testing such equipment to see if it is safe. I wish I was joking when I said they won't do anything unless someone is injured or killed, or unless a third party (competitor) funds the initial compliance checking activity. The legislation is there, but no money to proactively enforce it.

Depends on the device, what has to be done and who you go to. Some safety tests can be done with a multimeter but it is unlikely that a proper EMC test could be done without the proper equipment. Hence the cost differential for simple products.

Reply to
David, not to be confused with

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