Lead vs Lithium batteries - Large scale energy storage

Adrian wrote: .

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..... Phil

You can make just about any argument when you focus on a single aspect.

For example, plain old wood is better by at least an order of magnitude over *any* battery technology, when focusing only on energy density. And better by two orders of magnitude over lead acid batteries.

Peter

The Dreamliner uses a large lithium battery.

The energy density of lithium batteries is also pretty high if they catch fire.

Surely it's lower than before it caught fire?

Surely it wasn't supposed to be a joke?

What? This statement doesn't align with the quoted text.

This is completely absurd! Wood makes for a bloody awful battery! Every body knows this! Plain, old, new or exotic wood, it makes no difference at all. Good grief!

The previous poster suggested that burning wood would release an order of magnitude more energy than can be stored in the same mass/volume? of batteries. This may or may not be true - I haven't checked. In any case it is not a fair comparison, unless you are also allowed to burn the batteries.

That?s a great article, too bad it?s an Australian innovation, may have been successful elsewhere. The biggest proponents of grid battery storage (in Australia at least), are the same as proponents of renewable energy, specifically wind and solar. (Looking at S.A.) It is therefore, arguable that sustainability is one of their top concerns. Lithium batteries fall flat on their face compared to lead acid for sustainability. Why are these proponents so vocal about lithium grid storage? But I never hear anyone advocating for lead? Not in the media, and not in renewable energy circles.

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Same lead, goes round and round, decade after decade kind of thing.

Nice if you made that fact more plain.

..... Phil

How do you recharge wood after you've burnt it? Surely that's the better response?

Agreed. Lead does go round and round.

The point is the public debate is broken.

Renewables often aren't compared on a level playing field to other energy sources.

I wound't say wind and solar are "emmissions free" on a lifecycle basis especially when you bolt on a battery.

Add a lithium battery to a PV farm and I wouldn't even call it sustainable energy. Not cost effective or environmentally friendly (The eco-warriors would be shocked to learn).

For grid backup/storage, mass only contributes to the cost when transporting the batteries to the site (likely a negligible proportion given the overall life cycle).

Energy density is, however, a different story!

seems it'd be easier to have 10 floors of lithium batteries than 10 floors of lead acid