Agilent Oscilloscope - ripoff or rebadge?

My cousin was driven out of that business quite a few years ago. Things got both more reliable and more expensive to fix if they did break, and at the same time, the feature set introduction rate increased, making it less attractive to keep the old stuff; now it's replaced even if it is working, just to get new features.

But I don't agree that the current crop of EE grads are inferior; they are simply different. Not as large a percentage are into the same sort of hardware that was designed 20 years ago, but then we're not designing that sort of hardware now anyway. An FPGA in BGA running GHz clock rates on serial ports isn't something you can plug into a little white breadboard, but inside that part can easily be logic that would have spilled over ten large logic boards 20 years ago. The new grads we've hired in the last few years don't have the same skill set as new grads of 20 years ago, but I also don't see them being afraid to do hardware designs.

I'd also be happy to trade some of the 50+ year old long-time drivers I see on the road around here for some much younger ones that have gone through driver education and licensing in Germany recently. Time behind the wheel doesn't cure idiotic behavior. One might hope the worst of the idiots would kill themselves off, but there always seem to be more to take their places.

Cheers, Tom

Joel, it hasn't been HP for about eight YEARS now! There's not a whole lot still in production at Agilent that was designed by HP, and those scopes certainly weren't. Agilent is NOT an HP subsidiary. They are two totally separate companies.

Cheers, Tom

I had a control systems class like that... the guy teaching it was very good at math and loved to use rather fancy linear algebra in his lectures and on the homework assignments and exams. I definitely suffered, having a weak background in it at the time (and still rather spotty today, although definitely far better now than then), but most of the class was in a similar boat (i.e., lots of low scores) and the guy was an easy grader.

I didn't learn a whole lot, unfortunately. I realize it's a hard call for professors to essentially stand by their principles and actually mean it when they say you need such-and-such requisites, but when you end up with a significant fraction of your class not getting anything out of it due to many of the students being allowed to "slide by" in those pre-requisite courses, that's of course a problem too.

Yep, I think you're absolutely correct here.

I am a bit disappointed in some of the companies that offered those loans as well, though. Yes, it was certainly legal, but I couldn't imagine running a business like that and still showing my face in public or visiting my mother for Sunday dinner.

I'm definitely a bit of a softie, but when it comes to spending tax dollars I draw the line at anything much more than making sure people have enough food to eat, some sort of shelter over their heads (a 500 sq. ft. studio apartment is plenty for a single person), and a bus pass and library card to get a job and do some research/use the Internet -- bailing them out of their bad mortgage for their 4000 sq. ft. ranch is not a good use of tax dollars.

---Joel

Well, let's see. Recently I have repaired:

• A clock radio (solder joint at LED display)

• Garage door opener (hanging relay)

• Remote for garage door opener (cracked resistor)

• A furnace controller (blown SCR)

• A sprinkler timer (blown triac)

• Numerous sprinkler valves (all sorts of broken things)

• Several X10 modules (poor quality in general, IMHO)

• A HP4191 (bad transistor in backup charge circuit)

• A telephone (loose wire to keypad)

• Lots of other stuff that I don't remember

My wife manages the honey-do list and when something is done it's checked off and we go to the next item so I don't remember some stuff.

Hint: Don't let your wife see this post or she may get an idea and then your Saturday's are toast ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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Whew, good ... I did drivers ed and license in Germany. Then again in the US. But I'm not young :-(

The insurance companies saw that differently after we moved across the pond. "You guys are all related to Michael Schumacher". -> Decline to quote :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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Ah, gotcha. I was missing your point...

I have a clock radio that uses the LED display to both tell the time and display the frequency of the radio. It has a problem where it often gets stuck displaying the radio frequency (even when the radio is off!), and you need to slap it slightly to get it to work correctly again. I'm planning on just tossing it, since it cost all of $15. :-)

Our garage door opener has a range of all of 15', although I think it's just due to the guy who previously owned the house not realizing that that dangling wire of a receive antenna wouldn't work so well if he "neatly" bundled it up into a tiny ball. (I haven't fixed it yet.)

Yeah, not worth your hard-earned dollars, Joerg. :-)

Don't worry, I won't... I'd rather spend more spare "electronics hobby" time building new stuff rather than repairing old stuff!

To an extent I'll concede you've proved your point, although I do think the items that many a kid or teen today would be *interested* in repairing (because they do cost a non-negligible sum) would be their Xbox 350, their cell phone, their iPod, their laptop PC, etc... and all of these items are difficult if not impossible to repair at the board level.

---Joel

[snip]

I finished school three years ago and yes I agree cheating is ridiculous. What used to amaze me is that the cheaters would actually believe they are geniuses because they got straight "A's". Some of them would sit with there text books on there laps during a test. They would also Copy assignments' from previous years etc. I could never understand how the Prof couldn't notice. I did read a study done which included your ivy league schools that concluded that greater then 80% of students cheated regularly. These people probably all work at Wittig.

snip

Yes some people definitely need to learn financial restraint. I follow these rules if I can't pay cash I can't afford it. With the exception of big ticket items like vehicles 5 years max to pay it off or don't buy the dam thing.

I was curious as to how people who make about the same amount of money as me can own all these things but I guess they don't own them the bank does. I may not have too much but what I have I own.

If it was the Canadian goverment they would probably buy all the houses.

Ours was $9.95:-)

But I repaired it for two reasons. Walmart would certainly have chucked it, meaning more waste in the landfills. Then the drive would have been

60 minutes round trip. The repair took 15 minutes. The diagnostic instrument was a toothpick.

But there ain't nothin' else :-(

That's exactly the point, *interested*. IMHO only a person with a great deal of curiosity will become a good engineer. And curiosity includes taking things apart. Lots of things. Guess what I did when I bought five of those $3 Harborfreight meters? Opened one up before even trying it. This was a super lesson in ultra low cost design, something no professor could ever teach.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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Use another domain or send PM.

Many of us who don't work from home pass by a Wal*Mart every day, Joerg. :-)

But you've convinced me to take a look at mine -- keeping it out of the landfill is a good rationale.

Yeah, I agree -- I'm just not convinced that that curiosity has to imply they sit around designing or repairing "low tech" devices anymore. You see plenty of teens today building fancy microcontroller boards, sophisticated programmable logic designs, and writing quite impressive software, and many will make the "good engineer" grade -- it'll just that our industry is far more diverse today than it was 50 years ago.

I probably am a bit hypocritical here in that I've written in the past that I think it's more impressive to see a college kid at an engineering expo design their own, e.g., 318MHz 1.2kbps BPSK transmitter out of discrete parts than just plop down a complete 2.4GHz 1Mbps Bluetooth (FHSS) module with RS-232 interface, though. :-)

---Joel

**Ouch indeed. If something looks too good to be true.....

For the record: A mate travelled to China late last year (he is a tech) and I instructed him to find and purchase a Rigol 'scope for me. The prices asked were not so different to those in Australia. Further: His girlfriend is Chinese and performed all negotiations for him. He was unable to obtain one at what I consider was a reasonable price (IE: Around $500.00 for a model which sells for around $1,800.00 in Oz).

Trevor Wilson

Just goes to show that 50 years of Communism didn't squash a good capitalist idea. $500 for a $1800 rrp in Oz is bit much of an ask TW. It isn't an ME amplifier. :P Maybe $700 - 800?

Cheers, Alan

"Alan Rutlidge" > prices asked were not so different to those in Australia. Further: His

**Given that I know of one popular Chinese built CD player which sells in Australia for nearly $4k and has an FOB price of US$400.00 in China, then, no. $500.00 sounds about right. Aussies are being gouged for a lot of Chinese built products right now. If I buy a product which is built in a developing nation, I expect to pay developing nation prices. It's like my favourite hiking boots. Ecco. They were made in Denmark and cost $270.00 a pair. Now, they're made in Malaysia and STILL cost $270.00 a pair. As a consequence, I no longer support the brand.

Trevor Wilson

That doesn't surprise me TW. Nearly everything is made in 3rd world countries these days. Cheap labour, no penalty rates, poor or not existent OH&S, zero environmental policies - you name it.

Unfortunately most Australian customers are still going to by the Ecco shoes. They don't care unless the price actually goes up significantly and they don't care where they are made or under what conditions. Just take a look at Nokia mobile phones. Still one of the leading brands - now made in China.

Cheers, Alan

**Yep. If a product is made in a developing nation, it needs to offer significant differences (lower price, higher performance, etc) for me to buy it. The difficulty is that as more products are built in DNs, it will be harder to identify the rip-offs. It is also difficult for consumers to identify companies which treat employees unfairly. However, experience tells us that China will eventually move to a fairer system (for employees) and consequently higher prices to the consumer. I'm guessing this may take at least 10 years or so. **Indeed.

**That is a good thing and a bad thing. Even though they are sourced from Malaysia, they are excellent shoes. Unfortunately, the pricing model is still operating as if they were manufactured in Denmark.

They don't care unless the price actually goes up significantly and

**Yep. Unfortunately, Nokia has probably been forced to do so. They operate in an incredibly competitive market place. Perhaps they should take a leaf from B&O's book:

A mobile 'phone for 2 GRAND!

AND it's made in Korea!

No camera, no GPS. Just a 'phone and a music player.

Trevor Wilson

Trevor Wilson

I fully support your choice in not buying those shoes, but hopefully you realize that Ecco has a duty to their owners to try to make as much money as possible, right? I'm pretty sure that in most companies you'd be kicked off the board of directors pretty fast if you suggested that you could save on manufacturing costs while maintaining the same quality (always an "iffy" question, but let's assume that is the case for the moment) by going off-shores, and... hey... why don't we drop the prices as well, to pass the savings on to the consumer, even though our marketing studies indicate our current prices are considered acceptable by consumers?

Presumably in the Ecco case competition will eventually drive the prices down or what you're really seeing is a move to not have to *increase* prices due to inflation and other rising costs.

Yeah, B&O has always been one of those "high style" brands. Not a demographic I'd want to compete in -- I'd fail miserably.

---Joel

these:

eBay:

It turns out that Farnell were silly enough to sell older model Wittig/ Welec brand scopes. Even listed in the new 2008 catalog. But conveniently, almost all trace has been wiped from the website.

Dave.