1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

Sorry to have upset you David. In fact I read most of your posts and I find them to be generally well constructed and helpful. I also look at your video blogs and find them useful and I applaud you for having a go.

I don't use websites for posting pictures and I don't want to set up my own web space on my ISP (it costs more and $60/mth is more than enough right now) so I didn't want to go down that path just so a few people who can't get binary NG's could see the pics. Probably if you had asked me I would also have emailed them direct to you.

Reply to
Ross Herbert
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Reply to
David L. Jones

that's with approval and landed here.. I don't know how they do it but that's the cost on the invoice I have here. How much to import all the parts from China while

very rare if the claim is made , I would think the only thing needing a tick is the inverter and maybe the battery ? but its like the prius battery I guess - and what if they don't? You still have to pay for installation at

the install doesn't take long apart from the board which is a couple of hours max One would imagine that Nuenergy would

agreed ... so how do they make $ ?

why ? surely it's an invoice which may or may not be relevant to the actual cost ? which has to be done

nah Do you think they would approve

why not ?

Reply to
atec 7 7

has most of the binary posts from ABSE. It is slow to update, and doesn't get everything, but it is something for those with no accessto binary newsgroups. It is for veiwing only, no posting.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Get a free Flicker account, and post your images there. More and more people are losing access to any binary newsgroup, because of abuse and the required bandwidth.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

On Thu, 07 May 2009 10:38:54 GMT, Ross Herbert put finger to keyboard and composed:

formatting link

"Every BigPond Member has the option of creating their own website, with no establishment fee, no monthly charge, up to 10MB of disk space and up to 100MB of data served per month (11)."

  1. "Unused data forfeited each month. Additional fees apply if allowance is exceeded."

Does that mean that BigPond will bill you for excess data downloaded from your web site? If so, then it seems to me that a malicious individual could cause you great financial mischief. Why would any user want to expose themselves to that risk?

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

On Thu, 07 May 2009 17:08:36 +1000, Ross Vumbaca put finger to keyboard and composed:

advertising.

your

Its capacity is only 1100W.

Pay with a credit card and get some protection that way.

There are extra costs, eg $120 for a tiled roof, $200-$250 for relocating the inverter away from excessively sunny areas.

A monocrystalline panel, 2kW inverter system proposed by Aussie Solar would cost me $9515 whereas the NuEnergy 1.1kW inverter system would cost $8670 - $8720. The 2kW inverter would have reserve capacity for extra panels, but I don't know whether it would be any more robust than the 1.1kW inverter when used with 1kW panels. It may be worth pricing a Sunny Boy 2100TL just for comparison.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

The free (actually, one-time $US2.95, which I think serves as a legal check of adulthood) Teranews account gets you all the newsgroups with a limit of 50MB/day. It's all you need.

Reply to
Clifford Heath

Exactly the reason I do not use my "free" webspace. The trade off is to register a domain name ($40/2yr) with free(dyndns?)/paid($40pa) DNS ad hose it online (dialup will work,but basic 256/64 adsl is fine).

Reply to
terryc

David, Thanks for the offer and I will take it up in the future.

One thing which has only just started happening with your posts on this NG is that as soon as I hit the reply button all of the content in your post just disappears from the screen and I am left with a blank pane to type in. That is why none of your post I am responding to now appears in this response.

I don't know why it happens but if I go back to respond to your earlier posts, say on Tonights New Inventors thread, it doesn't happen. It has only started happening since I responded to your post in this thread on May 7. Posts you made before that date in this thread are ok and I see everything in them when I hit reply.

Can anyone give a reason?

Reply to
Ross Herbert

On Thu, 07 May 2009 21:30:34 +1000, atec 7 7 wrote:

:Ross Herbert wrote: :> On Thu, 07 May 2009 20:08:17 +1000, atec 7 7 wrote: :> :> :Ross Herbert wrote: :> :> On Thu, 07 May 2009 09:52:40 GMT, Ross Herbert :> wrote: :> :> :> :> I meant to say; :> :> :> :> :I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are :> providing :> :> :and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing :> :> :installations for free. :> :its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means :> :in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale :> :but .. looks better now :> :> :> So $US4K is approx $AU5K3. : that's with approval and landed here.. I don't know how they do it but :that's the cost on the invoice I have here. :How much to import all the parts from China while :> making sure they comply with Australian standards? Who verifies that they do :> comply : very rare if the claim is made , I would think the only thing needing :a tick is the inverter and maybe the battery ? but its like the prius :battery I guess : - and what if they don't? You still have to pay for installation at :> current labour costs on top of all this. : the install doesn't take long apart from the board which is a couple :of hours max : One would imagine that Nuenergy would :> still be trying to make a profit on top of all the charges so it still can't be :> done for zero out of pocket expenses as claimed by Nuenergy. : agreed ... so how do they make $ ? :> :> It should also be remembered that all the costs have to be submitted to the :> Australian goverment when applying for the $8K rebate, : why ? : surely it's an invoice which may or may not be relevant to the actual :cost ? :which has to be done :> before you even place anorder for the equipment. : nah : Do you think they would approve :> the rebate if you were not going to actually have an out of pocket expense? : :why not ?

Have you actually downloaded and read the application form?

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I would say that you appear convinced of the validity of the Nuenergy (and other similar) offer so I can only recommend that you give it a try and see what happens. Then report back after it has been operating for a year and let us know how it is performing.

Personally, I would want a reputable company behind the supply of recognised brand name equipment and a reputable qualified installer so that if there is any comeback later, I can actually talk to a real person who will have to take up my complaint.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

No idea. Nothing changed on my end.

Dave.

Reply to
David L. Jones

On Fri, 08 May 2009 04:16:30 GMT, Ross Herbert put finger to keyboard and composed:

The post that you are replying to has a dash-dash-space in the third line. This is the recognised sig delimiter, so anything that comes after it is stripped.

Either David's newsreader, OE, is having trouble recognising this convention, or he's adding this line himself.

You can use Ctrl-A to select the entire post and then hit R(eply). Then delete the offending line.

I suggest that OE users apply "OE Quotefix" to correct other quoting problems, such as missing quote characters when replying to "quoted printable" posts.

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- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

Ah, I always wondered what those two dashes were! Outlook was putting my new sig up the top of replies, and I wasn't manually cut'n'pasting the dash-dash. Installed QuoteFix, now automatically puts the quote at the bottom. Thanks.

Dave.

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Reply to
David L. Jones

Which is sufficient for a "1kW system", but they allow you to upgrade to higher rated inverters.

I thought of that, but I heard that you need to claim a chargeback with

60-75 days usually, and the waiting period could be longer from NuEnergy, due to the slow turnaround in getting the rebate approved, and the demand for installs..

Indeed, but these are really not too bad in the league of paying many thousands of dollars from other vendors.

No rebate for yourself?

Regards,

Ross..

Reply to
Ross Vumbaca

On Fri, 08 May 2009 16:41:03 +1000, Ross Vumbaca put finger to keyboard and composed:

Yes, I qualify for the rebate.

- Franc Zabkar

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Reply to
Franc Zabkar

(For some reason, my news server (optusnet) has dropped a few of your posts, and I only see this reply, but I was able to post your reply in from google groups):

of

I think it is inappropriate to try and compare your high-end Sharp/Fronius system to NuEnergy. They are not claiming to supply anyone with Sharp/Fronius, so a price comparison doesn't mean much.

They clearly state that the inverter is a Sunny Boy 1100W, and their panels are "CEEG". See this link for CEEG:

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I wasn't too sure about the brand of panels, so I did a bit of googling and reading, and it's true that this brand of panels is fairly new on the market (i.e not well known), but one of their technicians/directors is an associate professor in PV from UNSW. You can see his profile here:

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These CEEG panels are much cheaper than Sharp, and obviously they are paying a bulk-purchase price, which will be cheaper than the prices you see on typical places such as energymatters, who are trying to make a profit when they sell panels to end users.

According to an active Whirlpool forum, they might be paying down to $800/panel or less.. (Not vouching for its authenticity though).

I think that's a typical end user price with big mark up. If you buy these in bulk and at wholesale, they are much cheaper. How can energymatters make any money if they didn't add a mark up for themselves?

You're correct that it is impossible for a company to supply something without making a profit. Especially with solar, since there is not much scope for "repeated business". Once you get your system, you might not deal with them again for a long time. Therefore they must be able to make a profit (or be a scam). Note that NuEnergy aren't the only ones, I just got pointed to:

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who have also started to offer a low cost (i.e almost free) solar system to those that have the rebate. They do use the lower cost Latronics inverter, and their panels are "Fullgreen Solar" (taken from their FAQ).

There are either a great amount of scammers starting to appear, or due to a bulk-purchasing and the perceived rush for solar rebates, a number of companies have been able to secure large amounts of panels and inverters at low cost. I also heard that Sunny boy will soon discontinue their 1100W inverter for a newer model, which supports the theory of cheaper bulk purchases, as they may be clearing them.

Regarding NuEnergy as a company, I have heard (but not verified) that they have been in business for over 20 years, and that their new CEO has a decent track record. They're also members of the "Clean Energy Council", which apparently charges a fee every year for membership/approval, so they don't really strike me as a backyard operation/scam.

It's also worth mentioning that a lot of smaller installers are up in arms at the appearance of low cost PV systems (via a rebate) since they can't really compete with large companies and their large buying power. Understandably they are biased, and will spread all sorts of information, some of which may be untrue, but they are trying to protect their market of course. You wrote yourself that you hadn't looked at their site, but had been in discussion with someone, is he the person that suggested that they use "cheap chinese inverters of unknown pedigree"? (This was untrue).

Despite all this, they might still be a scam, it's a tough call.. (Not everyone can afford a high grade system, certainly not my parents).

Regards,

Ross..

Reply to
Ross Vumbaca

no reason to

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nah

(and other

not any time soon as we already have a very large system well below retail Then report back after it has been operating for a year and let us know

show the way sunshine

any

my

that's why I imported my own much cheaper

Reply to
atec 7 7

Then the NuEnergy system would cost possibly < $1000, from your post I got the impression that the NuEnergy system would cost you "$8670 - $8720".

I just took a look at Aussie solar's website, they also offer relatively low prices, with around $2710 for a 1kW system. Do you have any details on their inverter or panels?

Assuming that Aussie solar are quite reputable, it doesn't seem far fetched then, to see

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offering one for $1990 (cheaper), since they may be using a cheaper inverter/cheaper panels. Or for the really big purchasers, who get bigger bulk discounts, even less..

What is your opinion of the recent players that are offering 1kW systems for < $1000? (NuEnergy, and

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amongst others).

Regards,

Ross..

Reply to
Ross Vumbaca

On Fri, 08 May 2009 17:44:47 +1000, Ross Vumbaca wrote:

:Hi Ross, : :Ross Herbert wrote: : :(For some reason, my news server (optusnet) has dropped a few of your :posts, and I only see this reply, but I was able to post your reply in :from google groups): : :> I fail to see how they can both supply the equioment AND carry out the :> installation for less than the $8K rebate plus RECS. :> :> If you wanted to install a similar quality system to the Sharp 1kW system :> yourself then look at the costs involved; :> :> PV panels Sharp 24V 175W NTR5E3E cost $1,550 each :>

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:> and a Fronius IG15 inverter costs $3,074 :>
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:> :> These 2 items alone account for $12,374 alone for a 1kW system so even if you :> receive $9000 in rebate and RECS you still have to find $3,374 PLUS extraneous :> materials such as roof frame, isolator CB's, cabling etc, plus contractor :> labour. Remember, If you don't use a contractor who is certified to install :> solar PV systems you don't get the $8K rebate, so that expense must be on top of :> all other items. : :I think it is inappropriate to try and compare your high-end :Sharp/Fronius system to NuEnergy. They are not claiming to supply anyone :with Sharp/Fronius, so a price comparison doesn't mean much. : :They clearly state that the inverter is a Sunny Boy 1100W, and their :panels are "CEEG". See this link for CEEG: :
formatting link
: :I wasn't too sure about the brand of panels, so I did a bit of googling :and reading, and it's true that this brand of panels is fairly new on :the market (i.e not well known), but one of their technicians/directors :is an associate professor in PV from UNSW. You can see his profile here: :
formatting link
: :These CEEG panels are much cheaper than Sharp, and obviously they are :paying a bulk-purchase price, which will be cheaper than the prices you :see on typical places such as energymatters, who are trying to make a :profit when they sell panels to end users. : :According to an active Whirlpool forum, they might be paying down to :$800/panel or less.. (Not vouching for its authenticity though). : :> Even using a Sunny Boy 1100W inverter instead of a Fronius IG15 will set you :> back around $2,360 :>
formatting link
: :I think that's a typical end user price with big mark up. If you buy :these in bulk and at wholesale, they are much cheaper. How can :energymatters make any money if they didn't add a mark up for themselves? : :> It is impossible for Nuenergy to provide and install anything approaching the :> quality of the Sharp 1kW system (or even the Sunny Boy/Uni-Solar) for the cost :> of the $8K rebate plus RECS while still making a profit. It has to be a scam. : :You're correct that it is impossible for a company to supply something :without making a profit. Especially with solar, since there is not much :scope for "repeated business". Once you get your system, you might not :deal with them again for a long time. Therefore they must be able to :make a profit (or be a scam). Note that NuEnergy aren't the only ones, I :just got pointed to:
formatting link
who :have also started to offer a low cost (i.e almost free) solar system to :those that have the rebate. They do use the lower cost Latronics :inverter, and their panels are "Fullgreen Solar" (taken from their FAQ). : :There are either a great amount of scammers starting to appear, or due :to a bulk-purchasing and the perceived rush for solar rebates, a number :of companies have been able to secure large amounts of panels and :inverters at low cost. I also heard that Sunny boy will soon discontinue :their 1100W inverter for a newer model, which supports the theory of :cheaper bulk purchases, as they may be clearing them. : :Regarding NuEnergy as a company, I have heard (but not verified) that :they have been in business for over 20 years, and that their new CEO has :a decent track record. They're also members of the "Clean Energy :Council", which apparently charges a fee every year for :membership/approval, so they don't really strike me as a backyard :operation/scam. : :It's also worth mentioning that a lot of smaller installers are up in :arms at the appearance of low cost PV systems (via a rebate) since they :can't really compete with large companies and their large buying power. :Understandably they are biased, and will spread all sorts of :information, some of which may be untrue, but they are trying to protect :their market of course. You wrote yourself that you hadn't looked at :their site, but had been in discussion with someone, is he the person :that suggested that they use "cheap chinese inverters of unknown :pedigree"? (This was untrue). : :Despite all this, they might still be a scam, it's a tough call.. (Not :everyone can afford a high grade system, certainly not my parents). : :Regards, : :Ross..

After what you have discovered I have to admit that it seems possible through bulk purchase and using low cost Chinese panels it may be possible to get down to a price approaching $2000 (or even less as for Nuenergy) out of pocket expense for a 1kW system.

I did take a look at the free offer on Nuenergy site and there is one statement which I think may be misleading. It says;

"Essentially, the householder simply agrees that the rebate will be paid to NU Energy."

Now if Nuenergy gets the business they hope for it would not be unreasonable for them to be installing say ten 1kW systems per week. It takes about 6 weeks before the federal government comes good with the $8K rebate. If a purchaser has a system installed for no money out of his pocket, as inferred by the Nuenergy free offer statement, this means that the supplier (Nuenergy) must carry the $8K debt on each system installed for up to 6 weeks. Now 10 x 6 = 60 systems, 60 x $8K = $480,000. Therefore, Nuenergy would have to carry nearly half-a-million dollars worth of overhead debt before starting to receive any $8K rebates back from the government for the first week of installations. I doubt very much that Nuenergy would be prepared to be so magnanimous. I would think that Nuenergy, as do most other suppliers, would insist on the customer paying the actual out of pocket expenses (say $8K) at completion of the installation so that the customer is the one to carry the debt until the government pays the rebate back to him.

Of course I may be wrong (again), but a company carrying this sort of debt while waiting for the government to pay the rebates sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

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