1kW Grid Interactive Solar PV up and running

Who did you use ? What $$$

Awesome. Show us some pics!

How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?

Dave.

Awesome. Show us some pics!

How much did it cost you installed after the rebate?

Dave.

benefit

Whats' the value of the saved electricity and when do you expect to see a 'break even point' for the installation including cost of finance or lost interest on capital ?

What's your location btw ? I assume the panel isn't a tracking type and is set for optimum fixed radiation over the year.

Graham

On Tue, 05 May 2009 09:51:56 GMT, Ross Herbert put finger to keyboard and composed:

I saw this on TV last night:

What's the catch? The net cost for a 1kW system appears to be $450, the cost of the smart meter.

- Franc Zabkar

--
Please remove one \'i\' from my address when replying by email.

Hmm... The catch might be that the *installation service* only is free? Too bad we aren't eligible for the rebate :-(

Dave.

--------------------------------------------- Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:

:On Tue, 05 May 2009 09:51:56 GMT, Ross Herbert : put finger to keyboard and composed: : :>Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the benefit :>on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less than :>at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the :>sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year. :>

:>For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority :>that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply :>runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day. : :I saw this on TV last night: :

: :What's the catch? The net cost for a 1kW system appears to be $450, :the cost of the smart meter. : :- Franc Zabkar

The Nuenergy offer is basically a SCAM. The PV panels are of unknown make and can be either mono or polycrystalline type-it is not stated in the advertising. The inverter is an unknown brand with unknown Chinese pedigree. The system is run on a bulk purchase only deal AIUI - you pays your money up front and you wait, and wait,,,, and perhaps you never even get to see your PV system and your money has disappeared. Would you buy a new car on this basis?

The legitimate suppliers are up in arms and are making representation to the ACCC to have Nuenergy explain/comply with customer protection standards.

:> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply :> authority :> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter :> simply :> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day. : :Awesome. :Show us some pics! : :How much did it cost you installed after the rebate? : :Dave. :

I used Enviro-Friendly Products in ACT as the supplier.

They simply arranged for the WA Sharp wholesaler to deliver the goods to the address and for a verified installer nominated by the wholesaler to inspect the site and provide a quote for installation to Enviro-Friendly. All up cost after RECS ($966)and the $8K rebate was $5,334. Witha different supplier and different components you can get lower pricing but I went for high quality over dubious or unknown brand quality. I have posted pics and a bill of materials on abse - I'll bet Nuenergy won't supply anything like these components.

your

According to their FAQ at:

The inverter is an "SMA Sunny Boy (German)" not 'unknown Chinese pedigree', the PV panels are "6 x 170W mono-crystalline CEEG".

There is no indication that you would lose the deposit (unless they are a true con and plan to disappear).

I would like to know more about whether they are REALLY a scam or not, because it's getting really hard to decide what to do, and time is running out.

They sure do offer an attractive offer for people that aren't earning > $100 000, thanks to the rebate. The indication is that the whole system is free, as they use the Rebate and sale of RECs to fund it. However they may well be a scam, though not for the reason you mention above, unless their FAQ blatantly lies.

Regards,

Ross..

benefit

This company:

is offering a 1kW system with an 'Australian made' inverter, for $1990 after the rebate, which is a damn sight less than the $4000-$5000 that a lot of other suppliers are asking for. They are apparently a "Clean Energy Council Accredited Installer" (whatever that means).

Have you heard of them, or are they dodgy too?

Regards,

Ross..

Thanks But can you post the photos on the web some how, for those (like me) that don't have easy acess to ABSE?

Thanks Dave.

:Hi Ross, : :Ross Herbert wrote: : :> The Nuenergy offer is basically a SCAM. The PV panels are of unknown make and :> can be either mono or polycrystalline type-it is not stated in the advertising. :> The inverter is an unknown brand with unknown Chinese pedigree. The system is :> run on a bulk purchase only deal AIUI - you pays your money up front and you :> wait, and wait,,,, and perhaps you never even get to see your PV system and your :> money has disappeared. Would you buy a new car on this basis? :> :> The legitimate suppliers are up in arms and are making representation to the :> ACCC to have Nuenergy explain/comply with customer protection standards. : :According to their FAQ at: :

: :The inverter is an "SMA Sunny Boy (German)" not 'unknown Chinese :pedigree', the PV panels are "6 x 170W mono-crystalline CEEG". : :There is no indication that you would lose the deposit (unless they are :a true con and plan to disappear). : :I would like to know more about whether they are REALLY a scam or not, :because it's getting really hard to decide what to do, and time is :running out. : :They sure do offer an attractive offer for people that aren't earning > :$100 000, thanks to the rebate. The indication is that the whole system :is free, as they use the Rebate and sale of RECs to fund it. However :they may well be a scam, though not for the reason you mention above, :unless their FAQ blatantly lies. : :Regards, : :Ross..

I hadn't actually looked at their site but had merely been in discussion with another person who was more aware of their practises than I.

I fail to see how they can both supply the equioment AND carry out the installation for less than the $8K rebate plus RECS.

If you wanted to install a similar quality system to the Sharp 1kW system yourself then look at the costs involved;

PV panels Sharp 24V 175W NTR5E3E cost $1,550 each

and a Fronius IG15 inverter costs $3,074

These 2 items alone account for $12,374 alone for a 1kW system so even if you receive $9000 in rebate and RECS you still have to find $3,374 PLUS extraneous materials such as roof frame, isolator CB's, cabling etc, plus contractor labour. Remember, If you don't use a contractor who is certified to install solar PV systems you don't get the $8K rebate, so that expense must be on top of all other items.

I know for a fact that on my system, the contractor charges for installation came to $2000 all up so add that to the above 2 items and we have $5,374 out of pocket costs, and that doesn't include the frame and extraneous items. Sharp have done a package deal to provide ALL items, right down to the necessary labels for the various CB's and the meter box, so that the system can be supplied and installed for the same as you would pay just for the PV panels and inverter, including certified contarctor installation, while still making a small profit.

Even using a Sunny Boy 1100W inverter instead of a Fronius IG15 will set you back around $2,360

And cheaper (but still good quality) panels such as Uni-Solar will cost $1,204 ea so you do the sums. Note that the above prices are discounted from the rrp. This combination will save you $2,790 over the Sharp system, but you are still up for installation costs plus all the extraneous items.

It is impossible for Nuenergy to provide and install anything approaching the quality of the Sharp 1kW system (or even the Sunny Boy/Uni-Solar) for the cost of the $8K rebate plus RECS while still making a profit. It has to be a scam.

:> :> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply :> :> authority :> :> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter :> :> simply :> :> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day. :> : :> :Awesome. :> :Show us some pics! :> : :> :How much did it cost you installed after the rebate? :> : :> :Dave. :> : :>

:>

:> I used Enviro-Friendly Products in ACT as the supplier. :>

:>

:> They simply arranged for the WA Sharp wholesaler to deliver the goods to :> the :> address and for a verified installer nominated by the wholesaler to :> inspect the :> site and provide a quote for installation to Enviro-Friendly. All up cost :> after :> RECS ($966)and the $8K rebate was $5,334. Witha different supplier and :> different :> components you can get lower pricing but I went for high quality over :> dubious or :> unknown brand quality. I have posted pics and a bill of materials on abse : :Thanks :But can you post the photos on the web some how, for those (like me) that :don't have easy acess to ABSE? : :Thanks :Dave. :

Sorry, I don't make special arrangements for those on gmail accounts. I pay for my ISP to provide web, email and NG's and I'm a self funded retiree.

:Hi Ross, : :Ross Herbert wrote: :> Yesterday, my Sharp/Fronius 1kW system was installed and today I saw the benefit :> on the meter. At the end of the day the meter reading was about 2 kWh less than :> at the start of the day. The peak power production was around 840W due to the :> sun being at rather a low angle at this time of year. :> :> For some reason the installer forgot he hadn't informed the supply authority :> that they had to change the meter so until it is changed the old meter simply :> runs backwards while the PV is producing power during the day. : :This company:

: :is offering a 1kW system with an 'Australian made' inverter, for $1990 :after the rebate, which is a damn sight less than the $4000-$5000 that a :lot of other suppliers are asking for. They are apparently a "Clean :Energy Council Accredited Installer" (whatever that means). : :Have you heard of them, or are they dodgy too? : :Regards, : :Ross..

Hadn't heard of this mob either but I would doubt if they would be dodgy since they have to live here...

Let's take a look at what they offer. The 1kW system uses a Latronics 1200W inverter which sells for around $1,880

This inverter has a max DC input voltage of 100V which means that you have to connect the PV panels in series/parl combination so that means the cabling has to be heavier than when using say a Fronius which has input DC voltage = 400V. A cheaper polycrystalline 24V 170W panel such as Suntech still costs $1,419 ea

So that adds up to $10,394 and we still haven't included all of the miscellaneous items or installation costs. These additional items would cost say $2,000 which makes a grand total of $12,394 installed. Subtract RECS + rebate = $8,966 and we still have to find $3,428.

I can't see Solar Save getting their inverters or panels much cheaper than energymatters and they still have to make a profit on them. The only way they can do a $1,990 deal would be to knock off $1,438 in installation costs to bring it to that figure. I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are providing and installing systems for almost zero profit even if they are doing installations for free.

I meant to say;

:I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are providing :and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing :installations for free.

I am with iinet. They don't provide access to any binary NGs.

its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale but .. looks better now

If you took the time to notice I am posting from a "real" news server, not Google Groups. Yes, I happen to use gmail for my email on newsgroups. Not that I can understand your problem, I'm hardly some "google grouper" newbie, I'm only like the 2nd or 3rd biggest contributor to this group :->

Many people with "real" news servers just like you do not have access to ABSE. With your ISP you are almost certainly paying for web space, which is course a much better way to show your stuff for many reasons. But hey, your choice. Someone was kind enough to email me your attachments.

Regards Dave.

--------------------------------------------- Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:

:Ross Herbert wrote: :> On Thu, 07 May 2009 09:52:40 GMT, Ross Herbert wrote: :> :> I meant to say; :> :> :I can't see any company being able to remain in business if they are providing :> :and installing systems for almost zero profit, ESPECIALLY if they are doing :> :installations for free. :its possible to buy a 1kw system in China for around 4k Us , which means :in real terms about 30% off the retail price here for a real wholesale :but .. looks better now

So $US4K is approx $AU5K3. How much to import all the parts from China while making sure they comply with Australian standards? Who verifies that they do comply - and what if they don't? You still have to pay for installation at current labour costs on top of all this. One would imagine that Nuenergy would still be trying to make a profit on top of all the charges so it still can't be done for zero out of pocket expenses as claimed by Nuenergy.

It should also be remembered that all the costs have to be submitted to the Australian goverment when applying for the $8K rebate, which has to be done before you even place anorder for the equipment. Do you think they would approve the rebate if you were not going to actually have an out of pocket expense?