I finally emptied & cleaned & refilled & balanced the pool - thanks to your help

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:25:48 -0700:

Hmmm... that might be the problem then, because this Craftsman 1/2HP pump just won't pump. I don't remember how it pumped when new, but, I don't remember it being anemic at that time. So, maybe I just need 'new seals'.

Googling for "Craftsman U27-1358, 1/2 Horsepower portable utility sprinkler pump", I find it for $175 here:

According to the specs at that web page, it's supposed to pump 9.3 gallons a minute, but I'd be lucky to get that in an hour!

Wow. That's a huge amount cheaper than my sprinkler pump (whatever a sprinkler pump means).

???

I'm not sure if you're joking, or if that's a typo, or what. There is no way to drain either end of a pool, that I know of.

It's all just one pool (with a sloped floor):

It fills at the deep end first, but, that's only because no matter

*where* you fill it from, the whole thing is sloped to the deep end (since the entire pool is built around the cleaning system).

LOL, they are some strange dudes that's for sure.

What I believe is what they tell me they use in the pools that they service. Ask them what's in those ginormous plastic tanks on the pallets, it's the bulk chemicals they use for pool servicing. Orenda CV700 or PR10000. Depending on lunar tides they might sell you some in your own container but they have no idea how to price it.

I think that their pool service business is based on liquid chlorine, liquid acid, phosphate remover (PR-10000), and borate (Pool Perfect).

Yep, I've run into that exact thing. They have no set hours for the store. My feeling is that the retail store is almost an annoyance and that the big money is in pool service. Once you have a pool balanced, and you've got Pool Perfect or borax in the water, there's very little work to do for weekly service, especially if the owner has an automatic cleaner, and especially if they have a chlorine feeder or salt system. Yet in Saratoga not a lot of people want to maintain their own pool and $75/month is chump change.

Yeah, see the same thing at a lot of small restaurants.

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 14:49:01 -0700:

The fact they service pools with HASA liquid chlorine is one reason I believe that their 12% chlorine if fresh.

And, they sold me on the CYA *powder*, which is what their service guys use (because they can raise the CYA from 0 to 40 in one visit).

After a few experiments, I learned how to use the powder, but, I see instantly why the professionals use it but not the retail shops!

That might explain why they don't even *post* the hours *anywhere* in the store! There is no sign on the outside (IIRC), so you just have to have a leap of faith that they'll show up at their verbally stated opening time!

It's almost like it's the old Andy Griffith hardware store model of Mayberry RFD, only it's Saratoga California!

I don't use borax, but maybe I should! I'll have to read about the BBB method s'more.

When you're paying over $100 a day in just property taxes, the $75 isn't all that much! But they are missing out on all the fun!

I don't mind retail places not paying their taxes, but, I do mind them charging *me* to pay a tax they are not actually paying! :)

Oren wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 15:30:07 -0700:

Thanks for the URLS to the Beach/Baking Soda/Borax BBB sites.

I was going to pick up the TF-100 but never got around to it, so I'm just using a basic test kit at the moment (which doesn't give me CC levels).

However, since my CYA levels are 40ppm, I need to keep my free chlorine at 5ppm as a goal (and up to 23ppm for algae), as described in chem_geek's absolutely fantastic FC-to-CYA charts over here:

DannyD. wrote, on Sun, 01 Jun 2014 12:24:30 +0000:

I just realized they renamed BBB to TFPC ...

I don't really like the "BBB" terminology.

First of all, bleach is far more expensive than chlorine when you consider the concentration. So the first letter should be a C.

Second, it should be sodium bicarbonate, not baking soda, though since baking soda is usually less expensive than the sodium bicarbonate sold at the pool store this might be okay.

The B for borax is okay.

But acid and phosphate remover are also important.

So I'd call it ABBCP (acid, baking soda, borax, chlorine, phosphate remover. But that's not as catchy.

Also, once the pool is balanced and the borax added you really only need chlorine and acid to maintain it, with phosphate remover only very occasionally.

I was asking the guy at the pool store last week about Borax and he said he only recommends it on start-ups to stabilize the pool's PH. After that the cya kicks in and it's no longer needed.

If your PH is under control Borax is pretty much a waste of time and money. Anyway, that's how I understand it. YMMV. I'm still learning too.

I add PR-10000 very sparingly. 1 gallon has lasted me over 2 years now. I probably have over a year's worth left. I only add a 1/4 cup when I get a 200 reading. No algae problem here. :)

From what I've seen, algae becomes a systemic problem on neglected pools. The more neglected the more problematic it becomes because it actually get's imbedded into the pool and there really is no easy solution. Refinish? Acid Wash?.... Depends on the severity. Once the pool becomes severely infected with algae there are no easy solutions.