I finally emptied & cleaned & refilled & balanced the pool - thanks to your help

I'm one of those that would say, "I'll buy the house, if you fill in the pool." But I'm glad you have the work done so you can keep up on the maintenance. :-) Mikek

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Danny D. posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

I'll be over for my yearly dip.

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Tekkie

I have a small backyard with a 10,000 gal pool and deck. I think it's easier to care for than grass.

Your finish looks kind of like my PebbleSheen finish.

gonjah wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 21:14:11 -0500:

Your finish is very nice.

Mine, which can be seen dry here, is a gray color which has somehow turned a whitish blueish greenish from something, perhaps algae treatments and/or calcium deposits?

One thing I find in the finish that is weird is this mottled cracked-mud-like appearance when it's just getting wet.

In that picture above, on the left side, what do you think causes that cracked-mud look?

It's almost ready for your annual dip!

So far, it has taken three weeks (elapsed time) to almost fill the pool from the well water because the well just couldn't put out more than about a thousand or two thousand gallons without running dry.

I've snaked all the bottom drains, popups, and side vents:

One huge technical problem I just solved today was how to dissolve 12 pounds of professional cyanuric acid powder in one sitting!

That means only 1/10th of a pound can dissolve in my 5g bucket:

After making a few mistakes, I realized is that this professional powder cannot be applied wet, as the retail granules are!

It must be applied dry! Otherwise it cakes instantly!

I finally figured out how to keep the cyanuric acid powder in a suspension, so that it can be poured into the pool like milk!

The result is a dispersing "cloud" of water-separated particles:

But, it took a few experiments where all I got was caked CYA on the floor of the pool before I figured out the physical chemistry of a substance that turns into instant cement with water!

Apparently the cyanuric acid is slow to dissolve because of the amount of energy it takes for water to dislodge a CYA molecule from its crystal structure (analogous to an activation energy for chemical reactions).

The rate of dissolving has a far greater dependence on the surface area of the granules and on the circulation of water around them. Finely crushed CYA dissolves more quickly than the retail granules, though it is so light that it can't readily break the surface tension of water and ends up floating on the surface when I apply it by shaking it out of a dry net:

So, I learned a lot about how the pros apply cyanuric acid powder (which, I might add, isn't easy to buy because it's not apparently sold to the general public):

gonjah wrote, on Wed, 28 May 2014 19:34:55 -0500:

The maintenance task is a bit more difficult than most for me.

For one, I don't know why pill bugs LOVE my pool so much!

And, for another, I don't have any of the right tools. For example, this is the only "pool vacuum" I own:

And, this Craftsman sump pump just impotently dribbles!

It drives me crazy that 1/2 horsepower takes about an hour to fill up a 5-gallon bucket when the inlet end is immersed in water the entire time!

You'd think Craftsman tools would work better than that!

Another maintenance task is applying the huge amount of chlorine to the pool in various forms:

So, all in all, I wouldn't wish pool maintenance on my worst enemy; but maybe I just need the right tools.

NOTE: If you have any idea WHY that 1/2 Horsepower Craftsman pump sucks so badly, please let me know (because it makes maintenance manual when it should be automatic!).

What is the hardness level of your well water? I've been told hard-water causes mottling. The cracking? I'm not sure, but it could be related. I think the only thing you can do is refinish and don't use hard water. (got $5 to $10 grand to spare?)

Hopefully someone else has a cheaper idea.

gonjah wrote, on Thu, 29 May 2014 20:47:29 -0500:

Here is a shot of the pool store analysis of the well water this week:

It says 200ppm for Calcium, which is pretty good for a pool, I think.

I'd think so too. That's the water hardness right out of the well?

I had the opposite problem. The previous owners were using soft water to refill the pool and the plaster got pitted. I thought adding calcium might reverse the problem but the pool store guys said that it doesn't work like that. So I refinished the pool.

Danny D. posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

Let me know!

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Tekkie      Cow farts cause global warming - Andrea Tantaros on The Five

I highly recommend adding borate. It's enabled me to drastically reduce the pump run time while maintaining a clear pool with optimal ph level and optimal chlorine level.

The more expensive, easier, way is to buy a product like Pool Proof .

The cheaper, harder way, is to use 20 Mule Team Borax powder and acid.

gonjah wrote, on Fri, 30 May 2014 07:12:44 -0500:

Yup. That's pure California groundwater, at 200ppm Calcium.

The well had a tough time keeping up with the load though. I think I started filling the pool in the first week of May, optimistically measuring the flow at 5 gallons a minute per garden hose:

But, it took until the end of May before the water level was high enough to reach the skimmers in order to turn on the equipment:

I see. That's what everyone seems to be worried about, but, "my" plaster is the opposite of pitted. It has scratchy sand grains of Calcium on the walls, and on anything left in the pool for a long time:

Wow. Refinishing is a lot of work. I was tempted to wash the pool walls with muriatic acid, to get rid of the calcium sand grains, but, I decided to do that next year instead. :)

sms wrote, on Fri, 30 May 2014 17:42:32 -0700:

Hi SMS, I was wondering where you were lately.

You had turned me on to the 12% HASA liquid chlorine deal a few years ago, which has, unfortunately, gotten more complicated lately than just printing a coupon off their web site.

I don't know if you've been there, but, now, you pay, in the end, about $3.85 for a gallon of liquid chlorine, but the 'deal' is complicated because you first buy 6 gallons, and then you get 2 gallons free with a printable coupon; but then you get a card marked off, which says "buy 11, get the next one free".

I can never do the math anymore, but the pool guys told me it turns out to something like $3.85 per gallon. You know when you get confused when you're buying something that they made it confusing on purpose.

Anyway, my biggest problem was that I didn't have enough water to fill the pool in one shot!

In fact, it took about three weeks to fill the pool to the level that the skimmers could work without the pumps sucking air:

That I needed tons of chlorine, which was just being burnt off by the sun, until I figured out the trick to adding POWDERED (not granular!) cyanuric acid such that a dozen pounds of the cya powder dissolved in the pool water in just one application!

Those 'clouds' in that picture above are *in* the water, not above the water. It's a beautiful sight to see as anyone who has waited eons for granules of CYA to dissolve will appreciate.

My *biggest* problem is that this Craftsman 1/2 HP pump wouldn't pump water except at a dribble!

I'm sure there is something wrong with it, as I spent more time priming it than it did pumping. It wouldn't develop a head of more than about a foot, which seems dismal for a half horsepower.

Does anyone know what goes wrong with such a pump which makes it almost useless since it can only pump level (i.e., it couldn't bring water *out* of the pool, so I had to hand carry the water out from the deep end! :(

I don't want to do *that* ever again, so I should figure out how to figure out what is wrong with the 1/2HP Craftsman pump!

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. They said it was because Hasa changed ownership and the new owners aren't offering the stores the same promotions as in the past. I rarely require so much chlorine so unless I share eight gallons with my neighbor I'm back to buying the two gallons in the box. I'm using a lot less chlorine now because of the borates.

But you should be happy that you're not paying for the water.

I use a Harbor Freight pump for draining. I think the seals dry out on unused pumps. The two times I've drained the pool have been with new pumps since after I drain it, the pump sits unused for about seven years.

. Then a 25% off coupon so it's less than $48. I would have let you borrow it. I adapted it to the pool hose and pump the water into a downstairs toilet because I can't find the access to the sewer in the yard (I'm sure it's buried there somewhere). My neighbor said I could use his but he has never been able to get it open.

The key thing to remember when draining and refilling a pool is to always drain the deep end first and refill the deep end first.

The way the real estate market is where Denny and I live a buyer would never dare to say anything like that. There will be fifty other buyers offering a cash deal and taking the house as-is. $10K to demolish the pool would be a cost that would be lost in the noise.

Your problems all feed on each other. If you fill the pool in one day you don't need to be adding chlorine or CYA or calcium as you go along. Do you have "city water" or just a well? It costs a lot to fill a pool with "city water" but there are some advantages.

Where I grew up, in Florida, most houses had wells for sprinkler systems but no one used that water for pool filling. And you couldn't really drain your pool completely because it would pop out of the ground .

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:46:48 -0700:

Hi Steve,

You're my neighbor, so you know how potent the sun is out here!

I agree that had I filled the pool in a day, the 0 ppm of cyanuric acid wouldn't have been as much a problem of the chlorine disappearing every day.

But, since I filled the pool over a period of three weeks, it was eating a few gallons of 12% liquid chlorine a day, and it still had zero ppm chlorine every time I tested a day thereafter.

That unexpected (expensive) problem was resolved in two days, with a dozen pounds of cyanuric acid *powder*. Note this is the restricted powder, which is the same chemical as the granules, only it's a bone white *powder*.

The problem with the powder is that it instantly turns into cement the moment it smells water, so, it can coat your lungs in a second! Notice what happened here, as it caked into a brick with water:

It costs a lot from a well also, as electricity is something like

45 cents a KWH (as you are aware0.

It's a well.

I am always worried about those popping-out-of-the-ground scare stories, but, it seems dry enough here that the bigger danger is the plaster drying out:

sms wrote, on Sat, 31 May 2014 07:34:45 -0700:

Heh heh ... I agree with you.

A guy nearby bought a house here and put in $700K of renovations just to make the place livable!