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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot

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No, Otis. Maybe I can change my name.

My kid is Elizabeth Noe Larkin, three SF street names.

John


Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot

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Besides myself, three of the companies I've purchased pick and place
machines from, and one of the two reflow ovens I've purchased. All have
there businesses established in, or just outside of, small farming
towns
in Texas, Ohio, Indiana, and Missouri. The texas company was the
largest,
probably the largest employer in the town with about 200 employees,
in three renovated aggricultural wharehouses buildings totalling well
over
100,000sqft.  Full pcb line, a building full of plastic injection
machines,
and high tech clean room assembling high precision instruments and
some military electronics. The Ohio and Indiana shops where similar,
just smaller. The missouri shop was also pretty good sized, probably
100 plus heads.

Many grew  up in the area, went off to college, came back home and
joined these established businesses and where also working the farm
too. When I worked for Symbios In Kanasas, there were a number of
staff that would leave for a couple days when it was time to harvest
the milo or wheat, or it had just rained and they need to a couple days
to get the tractor and grain drill in the field to plant seed. Then
they
would be back at work. Good engineers, not chasing high dollar city
paychecks.


Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
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If you decide to not share information with people beause you're afraid
they're going to use that information to compete with you then you might just
as well shut down all the schools too (K through University).  After all, you
wouldn't want all those youngsters growing up and potentially competing for
your job, would you?

As far as wages go: yes, the disparity is a problem.  We in the US (and
Europe) have environmental, labor laws, etc. that we must comply with whereas
in many of the other places you mention they don't.  Hopefully, though, as
people's standard of living rises in those other places they will also be able
to afford to desire a cleaner environment and safer workplaces.  In the
meantime until wages rise in India/China/Eastern Europe (and lots of other
places around the world that have decided to actually educate their people)  
we in the US will likely need to learn to live with  less. A falling
standard of living, which to some extent we're already seeing (corporations
defaulting on pension obligations, less people with health insurance, lower
'real' wages, record debt).  The current US administration seems to be
obsessed with investing in military adventures, while places like India have
decided to invest in educating their people - which investment do you think
will pay off better in 20 years?  It's all a matter of priorities.

Phil

Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot

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All this discussion of Eastern competition and no mention of capitalism.
It's what the capitalist system always does, always SAYS it does. It
will always chase the cheapest workforce and the cheapest supplies, like
it did in Northern England and South Wales in the 1800s, the sweatshops
of New York in the 1880s, Japan and Hong Kong on the 1950s and 60s,
Korea in the 80s, Malaysia, India, China.. it just sloshes about. Two
choices: think up another system or stop whinging.

Paul Burke

Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot

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In the sense that capitalism spreads wealth from the richest to the
poorest parts of the world, it's profoundly liberal.

John


Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
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It's neither liberal nor conservative. It's a market, it does what
markets do- which is optimise for the market. I could talk about selfish
memes, but only if I thought Mr. Aylward wasn't looking.

When it is creating employment in areas with an employment problem, good
(in my opinion). When it's transferring employment away from me, bad (in
my opinion).

Paul Burke

Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
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It is no secrete that the US, both the mass populace and the government
administrations put far too little emphasis on education and this is
causing a declining society.  There is no way that as a society that
the people will be able to compete with anybody when they have the
highest illiteracy rate of the industrialized world.

I grew up near a major city that has one of the highest crime rates,
highest poverty rates, very low coverage of health care, some of the
worst schools in the nation but yet the city spends billions per year
on constructing new sports stadiums and entertainment districts.

Another thing that is absolutely amazing to me that so many people in
the US are without health care coverage, yet nothing is being done
about it.  By no means do I believe in giving a handout to the able
bodied who are just too lazy to get off their butts, but there are
still certain basic things that should be available to those who need
it and can't afford it.

These are just two examples of the priority problems in a society where
a D- student can make a fortune running around with a damned ball but
the honor student who studies hard can earn a median salary that is
barely livable.  As far as passing on knowledge, become a teacher and
you will earn a salary that is almost poverty level.

The US, both its people and its government need a serious change in
priorities and in attitude.


Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot

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It's all about market.  Do you go to the ball games?  I don't.  If no
one attended the games guess what the salaries would be.

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
I have been to two ball games in my 34 years.  The first time was when
I was 8 years old and it was part of a cub scouts group.  The second
time, I was in high school and had a friend who was living with a
multi-millionaire who took us to a game and we sat in his loge, which
was probably a once in a life time experience.  Other than that, I may
be known to watch a Carolina Panthers game once in a while but thats
about it.

You certainly are correct though about it being a market issue.  The
same goes for any form of entertainment.


Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot

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How is US society declining? Incomes, health, longevity, education
levels have been increasing steadily for 200 years, even while we have
admitted tens of millions of immigrants.

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Any country that admits as many immigrants as we do, will have a high
illiteracy rate. Besides, some countries just lie about it. Do you
really think Cuba's literacy rate is 99%?

John



Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:56:02 -0800, the renowned John  Larkin

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Certainly not in mass. At the current rate of steady increase since
1960, the average American male age 40-49 will be over 7 feet tall and
weigh roughly 533 pounds in 2525. ;-)  I don't think UK, Canada etc.
lag by much.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad347.pdf

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    >>the people will be able to compete with anybody when they
have the
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Ten times the illiteracy of Iceland? It's possible, although the CIA
only admits to similar literacy levels to the US (97%), which is far
worse than what they say about France and Germany (99%). They also say
99.8% for Poland and 99% for the UK. Cuba has sunk a lot of resources
into literacy since the sixties, and have exported their training
methods to greatly improve literacy in some of the poorer Mexican
states.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 12:13:22 -0500, Spehro Pefhany


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I don't think a 99% literacy rate is neurologically possible, much
less 99.9.

John



Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:49:55 -0800, the renowned John Larkin

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Yes, you must ask "99% of what?". I presume they don't count people
who are physically incapable of becoming literate or who have become
illiterate due to stroke or whatever. Surely the CIA can't be wrong?  


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot



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Depends on how you define literacy I guess. The ability to read a
McDonald's menu perhaps ?

Graham


Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 23:11:30 +0000, Pooh Bear

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Naaah!  How to press the buttons on a McD cash register ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:36:54 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson

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Don't the buttons have pictures of the food on them? In some overseas
McD  restaurants they have laminated cards with pictures of the food
items on them so that illiterates who only know English and not the
local language can order unhealthy food. I did some work for a major
equipment supplier of a certain large clown related restaurant chain-
they have very high standards on how simple the devices have to be to
operate. I think the alphas are the ones at the counter- the
epsilon-minus ones can, at times, if present, be found in back.

Thank goodness most of us use Arabic numerals at least sometimes, so
most people on earth can understand them.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:40:59 -0500, Spehro Pefhany

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Yes.  My point exactly.  Without the pictures your standard McD drone
would be dead in the water.

BTW, I don't go to McD's.  Last one I was in was 12 years ago in
Germany.  I was down to dollars only and needed some D-Marks.  McD's
would take dollars and give back change in D-Marks, so I walked in,
bought a cup of coffee and handed over a $20 ;-)

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My favorite stunt in a checkout line...

Cash register total shows (e.g.) $20.26

Hand boy/girl $21.00

After he/she rings it in, hand over 1¢  

And watch 'em squirm ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:40:59 -0500, Spehro Pefhany

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That's nothing. My computer screen, and all the programs I run, are
covered with little picture buttons. You don't have to be literate to
operate a word processor program!

John



Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:10:55 -0800, the renowned John Larkin

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More's the pity. Remember when "Desktop Publishing" was introduced? It
took a while for all the templates and so on to be introduced so that
people were not shooting themselves in the foot with the new tools.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Re: OT:Shooting Ourselves in the Foot

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You first have to learn and remember what all the silly things mean :-(

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
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