Microcontroller development environment with C/C++ compiler support for a freshman mechatronic student

With the Philips LPC210X series in the last year, and also with the Atmel SAM7 series, the costs of the ARM7 development tools and compilers for ARM devices continue to come down. It won't be long before ARM7 will make a cost effective platform for learning of embedded computing. They will start to make Rabbit micro look very out of date which it actualy already is. PIC 16 series... Don't even mention it.

regards, Johnny.

Reply to
Johnny
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I'm just in the process of buying an 8 bit ICE for around A$12,000. I'd say that was a bit pricey for a student, wouldn't you?

Rubbish.

Maybe, except the high end CPUs tend to be a lot more complex which is probably not what a beginner needs.

Better than my A$12k but still a lot for a newbie.

Errr... hang on a mo... didn't you just say in [2] above... no,never min.

Mike Harding

Reply to
Mike Harding

,

beginners.

Not as cost effective as the 8bit micros though, not a chance.

Nothing is "out of date" if it meets your requirements.

Why not, they sell in their hundreds of millions, and are probably the #1 selling 8bit micro line in the world.

Dave :)

Reply to
David L. Jones

That's deluded.

PICs and 8051s have been around for 20+ years now, and are shown no signs of slowing down. A PIC or 8051 will always be cheaper than an ARM, and there will always be a market for cheaper.

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Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  The SAME WAVE keeps
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Reply to
Grant Edwards

TiniARM(TM) from New Micros, Inc. is $69. LPC2106 w/ 128K Flash, 64K RAM. GCC for ARM is available.

We've got advanced info from Phillips on a cheaper new version processor to come, with a little less memory. We'll be targeted a new ARM based "Tini" at $29.

While I'm mentioning the line, we've also got TiniAVR(TM), TiniPod(TM) now, with Tini430 and TiniHC12 coming soon.

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Randy M. Dumse
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Reply to
Randy M. Dumse

Wow = $69 to $29, that new Philips chip must be a LOT cheaper ? :)

-jg

Reply to
Jim Granville

Yes, like an equivalent to a low-to-middle grade PIC or a ATMEGA8 sorta price, but with a 60MHz 32-bit processor with better than 4x the memory, iirc.

I'm really liking where the ARM's are going. We've also got Atmel ARM and Motorola ARM design work in progress. These are ~200MHz.

I think what finally convinced me I like the ARM's was the comment it was 6502 inspired. I used to be Rockwell's answer man on the 6502 processor line, and had studied them all before picking that processor, which then determined where I decided to go to work. So that really reached me.

I'm not sure how Phillips is doing this, but I sure am pleased with their pricing trend. This isn't the first time I've heard the ARM called the 8051 of the fuutre. I'm thinking 32-bits is the new 8-bits.

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Randy M. Dumse
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Reply to
Randy M. Dumse

called

Tell that to the countless people who need a 50cent micro solution...

32bit will never match the price point of the 8bit solutions.

Dave :)

Reply to
David L. Jones

This is a general question for other lurkers. I am wondering if any of this need is related to courses at Ultimo TAFE? and if so, which subjects?

TIA.

Reply to
Terry Collins

There are advantages of useing a popular 32bit platform for educational projects. It is possible to learn about the use of an RTOS and more viable LAN networking for example. The use of ANSI C is something that you cannot do on a PIC 16.

It is out of date if there are solutions that allow more flexibility and are supported by a wider range of superior development tools for a processor that is available at a similar price.

They are very inefficient using C compilers and do not support ANSI C.

The 16 series PIC only make economic sense if the volumes are high enough to justify the use of assembly code progamming. If you want to use C language the AVR, or MSP430 are both far superior in every way, since it they have architecture that is more reasonable, more addressing modes, and more MIPs as well. The PIC 16 series is a quite a shocker by comparison, and I think they are poor value for money where high level languages are to be used.

regards, Johnny.

Reply to
Johnny

Hi

I will be starting Advaced Diploma in Electrotechnology Electronics/Computing Engineering at Illawarra TAFE at Wollongong next week. One of my teachers has said to stick with PICmicro, because most of the jobs here in Oz require PICs. He also advises learning the Motorola 68HC11. He said to stick with the C compilers for PICs, because he said that if you said in an interview that you programmed in BASIC they would laugh at you. He closely follows what is happening down the road at Wollongong University, which uses C.

Cheers

Dale

Reply to
DS

By the way, check out the subject descriptions for course 338 Electrical Technology at Illawarra Institute of TAFE

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Cheers

Dale

Reply to
DS

It probably could get close enough that volume makes up the difference for micros of comparable ROM/RAM/periperals. As happened with

4-bit->8-bit.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

This is kind of funny, considering I've heard this exact argument on why the 8-bitters were overkill and the 4-bitters (PPS, COP, TMS10000) would always be there. You just didn't need 8-bits for most control problems. Appliances could get by fine with 4-bit processors.

Back then, in the 6 micron days (1980), I kind of believed them.

Then that crazy 8051 started taking off.

The king is dead, long live the king.

I think we will see 50cent ARM's in a few years. They were around 10 bucks. They're a few bucks now, and falling, very comparable to AVR, and now approaching low end PICs.

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Randy M. Dumse
www.newmicros.com
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Reply to
Randy M. Dumse

By not that much!

Actually, GCC for ARM is extremely mature (as robust as GCC for x86), so you get a whole bunch of 100% free and open tools.

The chips themselves are only a bit more expensive than the PICs, and given that you don't get (as of yet) any decent free compiler for PICs (well, SDCC is slowly getting there, but not quite ready yet), you have a real bargain here. And a 32-bit architecture.

Granted, these are a bit more complicated to learn and use (no DIP package, but you can find those "tinyarm" boards for rather cheap, and they give you a DIP pin-out...)

Reply to
Guillaume

next week.

the jobs

68HC11. He

you

you.

University,

It doesn't really matter too much which micro you have experience with, a good micro designer will be able to easily move between platforms, especially if you have C experience. But it pays to have played with multiple platforms so you can show that you have cross-platform experience. You can't go wrong with knowing PICs though, they aren't #1 for nothing.

C is critical though in todays market, you have to know it. Assembler experience ain't worth much on it's own if you don't know C. Yes, BASIC still has a "beginner" stigma attached to it. Although I'd rather hire a crash hot BASIC programmer over a lousy C programmer any day. Languages can be taught, the ability to be a good programmer can't :->

Dave :)

Reply to
David L. Jones

An execeedingly useful link. I've just spent a fortnight trying to find similar material for 0343 Ad Dip Computer Systems Technology, but it isn't available.

Thank you.

Reply to
Terry Collins

There is a free student version of the microchip 18f pic c compiler. Works with their mplab ide

Reply to
Alex Gibson

No Probs

Guess what? I just enrolled in 343 Ad Dip Computer Systems Technology myself today! I hadn't planned to do computer systems specifically, but everone is enrolled in the same course because first year is pretty much the same for all strands of the course. I might be able to email you some course materials as I come across them. Today I started C programming intro. I should knock it off in two or three weeks.

I am doing Electrical Principles 1, Control Programming Style ( intro C ), Operating Systems 1, and Industrial Computer Systems, plus some basic maths and other junk subjects. The course is taught mostly through online materials at the college or the Internet, so you can knock off the easy subjects in as little as a week or two.

Cheers

Dale

Reply to
DS

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