Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing

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I'm sure many of you are already well aware of AVR Studio but I just had to
say that from the viewpoint of a beginner, this IDE is absolutely amazing.
The ability to emulate has allowed me to learn without having to write
countless errors to the FLASH memory.  Best of all, it's free!  It'll
definitely pay off for Atmel when I start ordering more and more processors
from them for all the projects I'll be working on.  This and passing on my
recommendations to others is the absolute least I can do.  I had my heart
set on the PIC's before I came to this newsgroup so I pass on my sincere
gratitude for enlightening another newbie.

Sean



Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
I'm sure many of you are already well aware of AVR Studio but I just had to
say that from the viewpoint of a beginner, this IDE is absolutely amazing.
The ability to emulate has allowed me to learn without having to write
countless errors to the FLASH memory.  Best of all, it's free!  It'll
definitely pay off for Atmel when I start ordering more and more processors
from them for all the projects I'll be working on.  This and passing on my
recommendations to others is the absolute least I can do.  I had my heart
set on the PIC's before I came to this newsgroup so I pass on my sincere
gratitude for enlightening another newbie.

Sean




Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
Like you, I am a newbie.  

After speaking to some guys, I was advised to go the way of PICs.  I
wanted to start with AVRs initially but I've listen to these guys.  I
have since ordered the programmer.  

I hope I've made the right decision....  I really like the help for
newbies offered on avrfreaks though.  

There is a free PIC Studio as well called MPLAB which can be
downloaded off Microchip's website.  

best o luck

Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
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Cool, you'll be up and running soon.  Which programmer did you order?

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Don't worry, you haven't made any mistakes.  When I was getting started,
I was worried about which I should choose.  I chose PICs and have been
quite satisfied.  Once you know one, you'll see that the other is not
that much different, each one has it's own quirks and pitfalls, neither
is really "ideal".

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That's right, Microchip makes basicly the same toolset available for
free.

Be sure and sign up for the mailing list at www.piclist.com.

michael brown


Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
One thing that worries me is the lack of a free high level compiler
for the PIC.  Or is there one which I'm not aware of?

For the avr you have gcc-avr.  What free C compiler is there for the
PIC?



Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
By the way I signed on to the piclist and my mailbox is now being
flooded by a ton of messages I don't understand.

Why not just have a newsgroup for the pic instead of a flood fest :)
I've looked at comp.arch.embedded.piclist but i'm not sure its the
exact same as the mailing list.

Are there any PIC resources for beginners you could recommend.
Specifically with the 877 chip?

Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing


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JAL (Just Another Language) isn't C, but is popular for PICs, free, and
easier to use:

http://www.voti.nl/jal/index_1.html

Leon


Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
The AVR has a nicer instruction set than the PIC does, but the PIC is pretty
popular and there are plenty of books on it and help available. The earlier
PICs were quite quirky, but some of that has gone away - especially with the
PIC-18 family.


Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing

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What do you mean by nicer instruction set?  Could you please
elaborate.  Nicer in what way.  

Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing



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Nicer in lots of ways, including:

Modern, not 30 years old
RISC
32 registers
Faster (one instruction per clock)
Better suited to compilers
etc.

Leon


Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
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Not true. Thew PIC does have a weird instruction set,
rather unconventional and hard to use. The AVR has
a classical instruction set of "the old days" =-}.

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Their both RISC. That makes the CPUs cheap. The
cheapness should be your main concern and whether they
are CISC or RISC is really not important.

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Sweet. This makes passing parameters via the registers
easy to do and fast to access when you get there. (Pascal
style passing).

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Clocks don't count. Right now I think AVR has a slight
lead on speed, but that is more a matter of
fabrication than pure architectural design. If MicroChip
saw a market on going faster, they definately could.
Most embedded projects just don't need the speed.

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Definately! The 16XXX and 12XXX Microchip CPUs didn't have
a proper stack and are overly segmented in code memory.
The AVRs are easier for a compiler to generate code for
and thus the code for the chips comes out cleaner and
more efficient.

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Mmmm. ETC. I don't think either processor has Extended
Trancendential Coding yet. =-}

In the choice between PIC and AVR I've always gone with the
PICs for the past 8 years. They are cheaper and more
plentiful. Never had much problem with them, either.
I'm starting to use the AVRs and they look good. Their
both very nice.

Tom


Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
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On the PIC, just about averything you do has to go through the W register. Not
so on the AVR where there is no one special register (what is normally called
an Accumulator). for operations. On the PIC, you spend a lot of instructions
moving stuff into/out of W.

Eariler PICs also had some weirdness as far as subroutines went. Memory was
divided into 512 word pages and you could use only the first 256 words of a
page as a destination of a CALL instruction (bit 9 of the PC was cleared).

Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing

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pretty

It's a while since I wrote PIC assembly (or AVR assembly for that matter - I
tend to use mostly C on the AVR), but I think a few good measures of the
"niceness" of the instruction set and processor architecture are the amount
of macros needed to make the assembler readable and useable, the number of
post-its stuck to the edge of my screen reminding me of basic assembler
constructions such as for doing 16-bit signed/unsigned comparisons, and the
ratio of debugging time to program writing time.  The AVR wins hands down in
every case - similar to the mps430 (which I would also describe as "nice" -
even "nicer" than the AVR).




Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
Sean,

I just began my journey into embedded.  I'm enrolled in the embedded
certificate program at UC Irvine Extension.  The intro class uses the STK500
and STK502 development kits from Atmel.  I am having a blast! Having done
just general application programming for 8 years (most of it in Java), I'm
finally starting to feel like a REAL programmer again.

Another class I'm taking is Embedded System Architecture.  We're using
Altera's UP2 student board.  It's got a ton of doodads on it, and we're
learning how to use Verilog HDL to design processor cores (I think!) to
download onto the board.

I can't wait to work full time with hardware and software, maybe Embedded
device drivers!  Java and web programming is so boring to me now, I can't
wait to go back to C and maybe a little asm!

My ultimate goal (besides a new career): emulate Hayes over Telnet between
Commodore 64's so that vintage telcom software can use the internet instead
of the phone lines WITHOUT using an intermediate computer and null modem.
Some have already made ethernet possible on the C64, but I don't think
they've quite done what I want to do: C64 -> Hayes -> Telnet -> Hayes ->
C64.  I figure even if I don't get it to work, my brain will swell at least
2 sizes to fill the voids caused by high level programming!

Check out avrfreaks.com and avrbeginners.net for projects, knowledge bases,
and all around gurus (please search archives before posting questions).


So much to learn, so little time, argggg!!!

-microman (aka whtwrx aka Jeff)



Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
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instead
least

Take one PC, and one C64 with an RS232 card

Write PC software to read from the comport and create a connection somewhere
when an Ip address is dialed.

Keep connection open untill DTR is pulled low

ATD64.64.64.64.1234  where 1234 is the port number and 64.64.64.64 is the ip
address

Sounds like about 20 lines of code. That is something I suspect you can
easily write in Java.


Ralph



Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
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STK500
instead
least
bases,

I feel the exact same way as you do and once I get into the University of
Maryland, I'll be taking a lot more low-level programming and hardware
courses.  No offense to anybody but web/database development is just too
easy.  I started to feel like a robot.  I love creating my own devices.



Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing

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also you can use these freely available gnu-tools, programmers, libs  ...

Michael
--
Remove the sport from my address to obtain email
www.enertex.de - Innovative Systemlösungen der Energie- und Elektrotechnik

Re: Atmel Corporation: Simply Amazing
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to
my
heart

I haven't gotten the GCC add-on's yet but I'm planning on giving it a try in
the near future.



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