My warehouse/shop seems to be too well shielded. Even though the closest tower is less than 500 meters the reception inside is poor to dismal.
Outdoors we get full bars, inside 1 to none.
I know of the cell repeaters that cost upward of $500USD, but is there anything else out there that might help?
Thanks!
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
#7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
If you have internet there, I can't think of anthing cheaper than a femtocell: ask your provider.
-- This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
A friend who has Verizon paid for a cell in her house that works over the Internet. I spoke to the ATT store the other day and the guy told me that if the signal in my house was weak enough they would provide one for free.
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
Another option is the passive repeater. A very directional antenna is trained towards the tower, a coax cable from there goes through the wall and then on to a more or less central location inside your building. There it is connected to a less directional antenna. For the outside you'd have to price it out what is available at low cost, yagi, parabolic or stagger-element. That should be doable for less than $100. And careful on that ladder ...
I did that for a DECT phone system which is prone to multipath issues and it worked well.
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Interesting, hadn't heard of those - thanks!
Apparently some can be used to hack folks cell phone transmissions without their knowledge:
Upgrades removed the weakness, but nefarious folks probably won't upgrade...
John :-#)#
Could you just park the phone next to a window? What are the walls made of, that blocks the signal?
It's not uncommon to have metalized insulation which greatly attenuates a cell signal. I have to use the cell near a window in my house.
-- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998
This is a working warehouse building, and while reception is good in the front office, if you go further back it cuts out. This is frustrating to my customers when we are walking around showing items for film set dec, etc. They aren't upset, but I would like to improve reception. A few suggestions listed look promising and I shall try them.
The shop is around 5500 sq ft. Metal framed gyprock (sp?) walls and insulated steel roof.
Thanks,
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
"Bars" are no longer that useful as a measure of reception. For LTE, RSRP and RSRQ is what matters.
You can have 1 bar of good quality signal and never drop a call. Or, you can have 5 bars of crappy signal and effectively no service.
--- I don't want to write a novel, but some other things to consider:
1) Just so you know, wireless providers operate on many different bands. Generally speaking, spectrum below 1 GHz propagates better and requires few er towers to cover the service area.2) Generally speaking, if towers are few and far between, the carrier who h as the tower closest to your location will have the "best" coverage. Note that a given tower (rooftop site, etc..) may support multiple wireless prov iders.
3) Finally, not all phones handle all bands. For example, someone might ha ve an older handset that doesn't do 4G (i.e., LTE). The wireless providers are rapidly upgrading their 3G networks to 4G. When that happens, your ph one (location) may lose access to a nearby tower resource because that reso urce converted to 4G (which your handset does not understand).4) Some handsets have the ability to make/receive voice/data/email calls vi a Wi-Fi. If that's an option, you may not care about indoor reception from the tower.
But if the bars have always been weak (i.e., back in the 2G and 3G days), t hen you're probably just in a poor coverage area.
A carrier-provided femtocell is a good solution, as is a "self-help" booste r solution (available on the web and some retail stores). A booster shoul d help, as long as there is decent signal available outside.
At 500 meters (0.3 miles), a passive repeater should work for cellular. I've done that for an underground garage and two buildings with Low-E window coating, which incidentally is quite good at blocking RF.
However, there's a problem created by the new frequencies allocated for cellular. Five years ago, all we had to worry about in the USA was 800 and 1900 MHz. A simple dual band yagi or panel antenna would work well enough. Today, the list of available frequencies starts at
600MHz (T-Mobile) and climbs to 2500Mhz (Sprint): The best I've been able to do that covers the range is either an LDPA (log periodic dipole array) or a corner reflector fed with a biconical dipole. The LDPA antenna only has an optimistic +4dBi gain. The larger corner reflector will be roughly 6-15dBi (varies with frequency) depending on the size of the reflector. For the indoor antenna, I like to use an identical antenna. (I'm lazy. If both antennas are the same, I can design one and build two). I tried a discone antenna, which worked, but had no gain and therefore offered no indoor range. There are going to be indoor dead spots. Also, put some money into low loss coaxial cable such as LMR-400 with N-connectors. At 2500MHz, coax losses are high.Good luck.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
One other thing to consider (rule out), etc... Depending on your handset(s), and which technology(ies), the "bars" might i nclude signal quality, and not just RSSI level.
I mention it because localized interference in the downlink can manifest as poor reception/coverage. Easy to check: Turn off the main breaker to you r warehouse and see if the situation improves. If so, you have an interfer ence problem, not a coverage problem.
My guess is this is not the case, but I've seen it often enough that it can 't be ruled out. You could have some noisy piece of equipment, lighting, e tc.. (intentionally radiating or otherwise) that is making it more difficul t for your handset(s) to hear the towers. Cheap, Chinese LED light fixture s are famous for this. I can't count the number of Kohl's stores that had to totally renovate their interior lights to solve this exact problem.
But again, unlikely -- but doesn't hurt to check before you spend $500 on a booster only to make the situation worse. (In reality, the booster just w on't broadcast at all -- assuming it complies with the FCC Network Protecti on Standard adopted in WTB 10-4 docket, circa Feb 2013.
Femtocell radios have a limited range. The transmitters come under incidental radiators, which limits the unobstructed range to 30 to 90 feet depending on frequency. Downthread, it was disclosed that the warehouse is 5500 square feet. Assuming a square building, that's 74 ft on a side. If the femtocell box has limited visibility, is located near one corner, is on the low end of its range, or there are obstructions, then coverage will be limited or spotty. I have friends and customers with various femtocell devices. Many have difficulties getting reliable coverage throughout their homes and offices. If you're going for a femtocell, make sure it can be returned.
The femtocell devices also have another limitation. They need GPS to set the location and synchronize their clocks. Most boxes include a
20ft extension cable so that the GPS antenna can be located near a view of the sky. If plant your femtocell box near the middle of the building, it will be difficult or impossible to get a GPS signal. The best you can do is get a thicker and lower loss coax cable and try running it across the warehouse to a window. Or, maybe putting it near the ceiling and run the cable through a hole in the metal roof.Also, note that all the femtocell boxes are vendor specific. That means a Verizon box will only work for Verizon handsets and MVNO (multi vendor network operator) handsets that use the Verizon system. If a customer walks in with an AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, or other vendors handset, it's not going to work.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
There are micro-cells that are Internet connected. I think they're less than $100USD. I have one that I haven't used because our cell service got a lot better just after I bought it. You may have to get it from your cell provider, so it integrates with their system.
"Signal Boosters" See the various sections on the left.
See the 4 attachments for details.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
You have to know where your service transmits and receives, at your particular location. That is easy. After I found that out for DECT I essentially just had a dipole over my office as a "spill antenna". This provided a direct path to where the central transceiver was and fixed the path length issue.
Sometimes those dead spots are good and I wish there were more of those. I remember going into a restaurant bathroom and a guy inside one of the stalls was having a phone conversation while loudly relieving his bowels, interspersing impressive farts. Yuck!
But often not high enough to spoil the broth.
Luck is needed but most of all this is a real trial-and-error task. At UHF and higher, moving a metal object just a few feet can make a huge difference.
-- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Yeah, but... if you get a Verizon micro-cell, will it complete a Sprint phone connection? Some of these pico-cell things only respond to two or three telephones (by IMEI address), which is unsatisfying if you want guests to have functioning phones.
...
Jeff, As far as I know, there are no femtocells that operate pursuant to FCC Part
-15 "Low Power" rules. They are all FCC OET authorized under (at least) on e of the wireless services rules (Part 22, 24, 27, etc..)
One reason for this (besides the fact that a femtocell's radiated power far exceeds Part-15 limits - see FCC Rule 15.109 for unintentional radiators) is that the handset that it is in communication with also requires a licens e. (The handset radiated power also exceeds Part-15 limits.)
Per FCC rules, the handset is authorized as a consequence of being in commu nication with the wireless provider then providing service. See FCC Rule 2
2.927.By that rule, one could not have an arrangement whereby a handset requiring a license could be operated in an unlicensed environment.
Jeff,
The thrust of your reply above is essentially accurate. However, MVNO stands for Mobile Vitural Network Operator (not "multi-vendor"). An MVNO doesn't own any licenses or transmitters (wireless infrastructure). They simply buy time from licensed carriers (i.e., AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc..) and resell it as their own.
Some popular MVNO's are Xfinity Mobile, Consumer Cellular and Virgin Mobile.
To my knowledge, MVNO's are not usually enabled on femtocells and such. No reason they couldn't be (technically), but I think some of these MVNO's swap providers frequently and it may be a hassle to keep things programmed outside the core RAN network (i.e., macrocellular network).
I believe you're correct. I hadn't gotten to where he wanted to open up the cell to all of his customers.
Oops. For some reason, I thought they were not licensed. Thank you for the correction. Class 1 Femtocell runs about 20dBm (100milliwatt) EIRP. However, my comments on limited range still apply. The power level is low enough to cause problems covering a large warehouse.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.