The 737 Max has been grounded in a variety of countries including the UK, Ireland, Germany, China, Iceland:
As for the US Donald Trump has tweeted his official findings on the cause and I assume the investigation is now closed, and business may continue as usual. but please feel free to use this thread for any off-the-record conspiracy theories or wild speculation.
His point is worth pondering, which is ..... Are we making things too compl icated? Have we achieved an acceptable safety level and additional complexi ty is taking away safety? His comment probably cost Boeing 20 points today, but Boeing will ultimately get vindication or justice.
He yearns to be king, but has to settle being the jester.
John
I am laughing. Every single day.
I read Bob Pease loved his VW Bug, it was a rather simple automobile by modern standards. You could know everything there was to know about it and didn't need much in the way of expensive tools or fancy test equipment to do all your own maintenance. An exercise in elegant simplicity.
RIP.
tirsdag den 12. marts 2019 kl. 17.52.42 UTC+1 skrev snipped-for-privacy@columbus.rr.com :
plicated? Have we achieved an acceptable safety level and additional comple xity is taking away safety? His comment probably cost Boeing 20 points toda y, but Boeing will ultimately get vindication or justice.
with stuff like this is usually a question of whether you want the odd crash due to computer error or many more crashes due to human error
The question is whether the odd crash is one in many years or two in 5 months.
These systems are getting far too complex IMO. Even bleedin' cars today think they know better than humans. Just a personal tragedy for that poor bloke trying to push his bike across the road the other day and got run over by one of the self-driving cars in fully autonymous mode. And then there was what happened to the journalist Michael Hastings. :( :( :(
-- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
Unfortunately, the bug was a tin can, and probably caused his death in what would have otherwise been a survivable accident in a more modern car.
My daughter crashed my brand-new Honda Civic hybrid about 10 years ago, snapping a larger power pole with dual 45 KV feeders on it, about an 18" diameter pole. The paramedics were astounded when they found her sitting on the curb and told them she was the driver. After thinking about this for a while, I went out and bought another of the same car! It protected her amazingly well.
Jon
Not quite sure why you would be. The MAX has now just been banned from all UK and European air space.
-- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
1st gen Chevy Volt that was hit from behind by a drunk driver at high speed, pushed off an embankment and rolled several times, with its driver who suffered only minor injuries:
As a now-disgraced comedian once said, "[VW Beetle owners] don't tell you that when you have a head-on collision with a dog, you lose."
because in good old days there was never any car crashes ...
Donald Trump is an expert in everything, but he is not a pilot. To explore the issue of complexity, watch these two excellent detailed videos by Juan Browne, on his blancolirio YouTube channel. Juan is a pilot's pilot. He was a 737 pilot for years, and he now flys 777 long-haul flights to London. etc. He also owns his own plane, and is highly technical.
The first video provides good detail about the Lion Air crash. While the 737 Max8 is not necessarily too hard to fly, Boeing's particular complex and hidden scheme for disabling the automatic stall-recovery dive, which was over-riding pilot control, was likely the cause of that crash. Failed speed sensors would be the first cause, but automatic dive response to flying too slow, too strong for pilots to overcome with their controls, was the final cause. Near the end of the video, Juan says that you can be sure EVERY current 737 Max8 pilot immediately learned (and perhaps even practiced in the cockpit), the switch sequence to obtain manual control.
But to me the flight details for the Ethiopian Air Max8 flight, in Juan's second video (below), with erratic altitude control, are reminiscent of the previous crash. Still, an 8000-hour experience first officer, presumably would have learned how to shutoff the automatic system.
Boeing needs to change their software. If a pilot is repeatedly and vigorously fighting automatic controls, it should immediately shutoff and give him control.
--
Thanks,
- Win
A good jester only _acts_ the fool.
-- When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
He's right about planes being too automated. He has a lot of common sense.
Air France 447 crashed for the same reason: a lot of automation, and an airplane, A330, that the crew didn't understand. They kept the nose up all the way into the ocean.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
He said complicated which is the basically the opposite, the planes are so automated the pilot forget how to fly in the event the automation fails and they have to
almost all the automation turned off when the computers couldn't understand the sensor inputs, leaving the the pilots to fly the plane
One of pilots did. The other pilot didn't know it was being done. It remains a mystery why a qualified pilot would do something like that. Had this pilot somehow made it through training, qualification, and crew checking without grasping this most elementary aspect of aircraft physics?
On the 737MAX, I certainly wonder whether the system in question is a solution looking for a problem - I'm not aware that pilots have been stalling their 737s into the ground.
Sylvia.
Sure, why not? You act like in general white-collar professional success is egalitarian-ly based solely on skill and talent and not also a whole lot on just knowing the right people and being able to say the right words at appropriate times.
What I'm trying to say is y'all act like you've never seen a white person before (or at least the type who's an extremely well-paid executive at a Fortune 500 company who still needs IT help to CC an email, anyway)
It seems a sensible precaution given that two almost brand new planes of that type have nose dived catastrophically a few minutes after take off. It could still be an unfortunate but tragic coincidence though.
The Lion Air crash was a combination of a sensor fault left unfixed until it caught out a pilot that failed to do exactly the right thing:
It seems that marketing thought it was a good idea not to tell pilots about the modified centre of gravity from the new engines and AOA sensor that prevents stalling by going into a power dive when it goes wrong. Single point failures are not good in aerospace design.
I do wonder if civilian airliners should be required to be intrinsically capable of stable flight without having full fly-by-wire control. To that extent President Trump may have a point - there should be a simpler way for the pilots to quickly regain stable flight when the more complex control systems malfunction aka "safe mode". Sacrifice fuel efficiency and range to maintain altitude and keep the wings attached.
What is more surprising is that the FAA has said Boeing will issue a software fix and "they are safe, nothing to see here, move along".
-- Regards, Martin Brown
ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.