2.45GHz RFID reader

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Hi, all:
I'm going to design a 2.45GHz RFID reader. Are there any IC chips
available? Can anyone give me some informations and suggestions?
Thanks alot

X.Y Yang



Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
On 24 Nov 2004 19:04:10 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

>Hi, all:
>I'm going to design a 2.45GHz RFID reader.

Why?

>Are there any IC chips
>available? Can anyone give me some informations and suggestions?
>Thanks alot
>
>X.Y Yang

The readers are provided by the tag manufacturers.

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer



Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
On 25 Nov 2004 00:01:34 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

>REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer

And where did the tag _design_ come from ?:-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
> REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer

Again... Why?

You will be among a million other tag and reader manufacturers in a
well established marketplace.

If you are having to ask about the availability of chips to to do the
R.F. side of the reader you are very likely unaware of the challenges
you face in backsplatter tag energizing and reading.

I would hire a good R.F. consultant with prior experience in the art.


Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
On 25 Nov 2004 12:27:43 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@vorel.com (Product developer)

>> REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer
>
>Again... Why?
>
>You will be among a million other tag and reader manufacturers in a
>well established marketplace.
>
>If you are having to ask about the availability of chips to to do the
>R.F. side of the reader you are very likely unaware of the challenges
>you face in backsplatter tag energizing and reading.
>
>I would hire a good R.F. consultant with prior experience in the art.

Read (:-)) between the lines... someone has reverse-engineered a tag
chip, but forgot they needed to also steal a reader ;-)

SE Asia has no concern with patents or copyrights).

Scum!

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
> On 25 Nov 2004 12:27:43 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@vorel.com (Product developer)
>
> >> REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer
> >
> >Again... Why?
> >
> >You will be among a million other tag and reader manufacturers in a
> >well established marketplace.
> >
> >If you are having to ask about the availability of chips to to do the
> >R.F. side of the reader you are very likely unaware of the challenges
> >you face in backsplatter tag energizing and reading.
> >
> >I would hire a good R.F. consultant with prior experience in the art.
>
> Read (:-)) between the lines... someone has reverse-engineered a tag
> chip, but forgot they needed to also steal a reader ;-)
>
> SE Asia has no concern with patents or copyrights).
>
> Scum!
>
>                                         ...Jim Thompson
> --
> |  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
> |  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
> |  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
> |  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
> |  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
> |       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
>              
> I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

I failed to look at his name. I believe you are correct as to his
intentions but with all the established players in this market, even
in Asia, I fail to see how anyone can compete. Selling tags for EAS
applications is like selling cloth's hangers. It's a penny here, penny
there commodity.

Now active tags are a whole different story as you well know. I am
currently working on a long range (100 meter+) Zigbee protocol design
to work in a Mesh.


Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
you:
take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal

Jim Thompson wrote:
> On 25 Nov 2004 12:27:43 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@vorel.com (Product developer)
> wrote:
>
> >> REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer
> >
> >Again... Why?
> >
> >You will be among a million other tag and reader manufacturers in a
> >well established marketplace.
> >
> >If you are having to ask about the availability of chips to to do
the
> >R.F. side of the reader you are very likely unaware of the
challenges
> >you face in backsplatter tag energizing and reading.
> >
> >I would hire a good R.F. consultant with prior experience in the
art.
>
> Read (:-)) between the lines... someone has reverse-engineered a tag
> chip, but forgot they needed to also steal a reader ;-)
>
> SE Asia has no concern with patents or copyrights).
>
> Scum!
>
>                                         ...Jim Thompson
> --
> |  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
> |  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
> |  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
> |  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
> |  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
> |       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
>
> I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.



Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
On 26 Nov 2004 02:01:41 -0800, the renowned " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

>I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
>you:
>take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal

Great! Can you post the Pinyin? ;-)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
> On 26 Nov 2004 02:01:41 -0800, the renowned " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"
>
> >I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
> >you:
> >take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal
>
> Great! Can you post the Pinyin? ;-)

Duibuqi, wo bu tai hui xie pinyin...

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)




Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:27:17 +0100, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"

>> On 26 Nov 2004 02:01:41 -0800, the renowned " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"
>>
>> >I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
>> >you:
>> >take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal
>>
>> Great! Can you post the Pinyin? ;-)
>
>Duibuqi, wo bu tai hui xie pinyin...

Wo3 gao1 xing4 ji2 le!



Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
> On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:27:17 +0100, the renowned "Frank Bemelman"
>
> >> On 26 Nov 2004 02:01:41 -0800, the renowned " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"
> >>
> >> >I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
> >> >you:
> >> >take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal
> >>
> >> Great! Can you post the Pinyin? ;-)
> >
> >Duibuqi, wo bu tai hui xie pinyin...
>
> Wo3 gao1 xing4 ji2 le!

Wo3 tong2 yi4!

Gai1 shui4 jiao4 le...  ming tien jian!

--
Xie-xie ni, Frank.
(remove 'x' and 'invalid' when replying by email)







Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader

> I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
> you: take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal

   Another allegedly chinese one is "Man who waits for roast duck to
fly into mouth must wait very, very long time".

   Please figure out which RFID protocol you are interested in, then
go through the IC manufacturer's catalogs (perhaps google) to find
whether there are complete IC solutions available. What's available
and what's not changes continuosly, and you get the most up-to-date
answers only by looking yourself. If you can't find a complete
solution, figure out which radio IC's can implement most of the
functionality you will need, and design around those. It takes some
work, but so it has taken for the rest of us, too.

   Regards,
            Mikko



Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader

>
>> I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
>> you: take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal
>
>
>   Another allegedly chinese one is "Man who waits for roast duck to
> fly into mouth must wait very, very long time".

ROTFLMAO!

>
>   Please figure out which RFID protocol you are interested in, then
> go through the IC manufacturer's catalogs (perhaps google) to find
> whether there are complete IC solutions available. What's available
> and what's not changes continuosly, and you get the most up-to-date
> answers only by looking yourself. If you can't find a complete
> solution, figure out which radio IC's can implement most of the
> functionality you will need, and design around those. It takes some
> work, but so it has taken for the rest of us, too.
>
>   Regards,
>            Mikko
>


Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader

> I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
> you:
> take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal

LOL

>
> Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>>On 25 Nov 2004 12:27:43 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@vorel.com (Product developer)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>
>
>>>>REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer
>>>
>>>Again... Why?
>>>
>>>You will be among a million other tag and reader manufacturers in a
>>>well established marketplace.
>>>
>>>If you are having to ask about the availability of chips to to do
>
> the
>
>>>R.F. side of the reader you are very likely unaware of the
>
> challenges
>
>>>you face in backsplatter tag energizing and reading.
>>>
>>>I would hire a good R.F. consultant with prior experience in the
>
> art.
>
>>Read (:-)) between the lines... someone has reverse-engineered a tag
>>chip, but forgot they needed to also steal a reader ;-)
>>
>>SE Asia has no concern with patents or copyrights).
>>
>>Scum!
>>
>>                                        ...Jim Thompson
>>--
>>|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
>>|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
>>|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
>>|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
>>|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
>>|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
>>
>>I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.
>
>


Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader

>
>> I have no time to squarrel here. A chinese idiom is very suitable to
>> you:
>> take advantage of one's seniority to be a rascal
>
>LOL

Listen, pal, when you're through shooting your mouth off laughing
inanely at nothing, like all morons do, learn to trim the f*cking F/U
and save bandwidth.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.


Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
Hi all,
I'm depressive to see that my post brought a war. Sorry for my
impoliteness in the 3rd post, though I was very angry then.
I don't think this is a place to discuss whether or not we should do RF
tag and reader. It is determined by the local market, national
conditions and many other issues, and not the business of our
engineers. My job is just to design a reader. I have some experiences
in 13.56MHz RFID but nothing in UHF. After searching main IC
manufactures' product web pages, I found little information of 2.45G
transmitter chips, besides some power amplifiers. And in some BBS and
forums, the popular topics are still on 13.56M. Being unfamiliar with
this field, I want some information about my target. I don't want who
can show me any schematics or design secrets. I've own power and
intelligence to complete the task.

To Mikko Kiviranta:
Special thanks to you for your valuable information. Our design is an
ISO 18000-4 passive tag. It seems that major modules of reader should
be implemented by discrete devices?

To some ones:
Please don't induce a conclusion from empty. I confess that many
reverse-engineerings are undertaking, in China, but also in the whole
world, including US and EURO. But do you think one can produce a 2.45G
chip just by copying? Or even, by some pestilent group posts?

To those who can speak Chinese:
Wo3  hen3  gao1 xing4  zai4  zhe4 li3  neng2  kan4 dao4  zhong1 wen2 .
Xi1 wang4  neng2  he2  ni3 men2  jiao1 peng2 you3.
Na4 ge4  cheng2 yu3  de  pin1 yin1  shi4: yi1 lao3 mai4 lao3



Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
On 26 Nov 2004 20:49:20 -0800, the renowned " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

>To those who can speak Chinese:
>Wo3  hen3  gao1 xing4  zai4  zhe4 li3  neng2  kan4 dao4  zhong1 wen2 .

A little anyway.

>Xi1 wang4  neng2  he2  ni3 men2  jiao1 peng2 you3.

Yes.

>Na4 ge4  cheng2 yu3  de  pin1 yin1  shi4: yi1 lao3 mai4 lao3

Thanks. Did I get it right? http://members.rogers.com/speff/idiom.pdf


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
 > Our design is an
> ISO 18000-4 passive tag. It seems that major modules of reader should
> be implemented by discrete devices?

   I don't know - the situation changes continuously. Philips,
for instance, has announced to have the UCODE 2.45GHz IC family
in their portfolio of devices:
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/news/content/file_987.html

but among the available products I can only find tag IC's
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/markets/identification/products/ucode/index.html

which I intepret that either they don't have the reader ICs finished
yet, or don't want to put them publicly available.


   Another player in the market, Atmel, also seems to list the
low-frequency RFID IC's only in their web page. Still, they have
been working on higher-frequency devices for long-enough time
to have them internally available:

http://www.atmel.com/products/RD/prod_palomar.asp
Karthaus & Fischer, IEEE J. Solid-State Circ., vol38 no10 p1602


   Still another manufacturer, EM Microelectronic, again seems to list
the EM4223 tag IC and no reader ICs.


   Regards,
            Mikko


Re: 2.45GHz RFID reader
> REASON: Our company will be a tag manufacturer

Well, ask the people who will be making the transmitters what format the
tags transmit in (there is not only one) and go from there.


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