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Re: OT Sad News

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I'll start to believe it when the url has "http://www.cnn.com " or another
reputable news service in it.

dmm


Re: OT Sad News
if michael jackson wasnt a  rock spider , then  why did he pay out $20
million dollars to a kids parents  IN ONE CASE  ????
i mean , IF you where innocent , would you pay out 20 million dollars ,
???

i dont think so ..



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Maybe this will be of interest.

http://jnelj.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/breaking-news-jordan-chandler-confesses-%E2%80%9Cmichael-jackson-didn%E2%80%99t-do-anything-to-me /

http://news.bakililar.az/english_23310.html


Also odd that I have yet to see this on Australian news as it would
blow
the Australian government / police propaganda policy that "every man
is a pedophile, or a pedophile in the making".

Without wanting to create any offence to you personally, you seem to
have
a similar attitude based on your comments.
If you were on a jury in such a case, I wouldn't believe
you could make a fair and just decision based on facts rather than
media bias or
personal feelings on the nature of the alleged crime.

This applies to a significant proportion of the population too IMHO.

This bias is probably why the thing was settled out of court.

I hope you press as hard for justice to be done to this bastard for
what he had done
to Jackson.  Charges of Blackmail, extortion, perjury and instant
freezing of all assets pending transfer to Jackson's estate if found
guilty  would be a good start.  If you dont, then one day you could be
the next victim of this kind of human filth.



Re: OT Sad News
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Money is relative.  Although later he had a lot of economic troubles, at
one point he had seriously large amounts of money.  For him at the time,
it would be easy to make a payoff of $20mil to minimise publicity and
get the case out of the way so he can carry with his life and carrier.
As a percentage of his fortune, it was perhaps the equivalent of $200
for a "normal" person - easily worth it.

So I don't think the payout shows any indication about his guilt or
innocence.  The criminal courts did not find him guilty, therefore he is
legally innocent of the crimes charged.  That's not the same thing as
saying he is truly innocent - there's a lot of grey areas in a situation
like this.

I think it's fair to say that no one here has any basis for judging his
guilt beyond the courts decision.  A person is presumed innocent until
proven guilty beyond all reasonable doubt - that's the way democratic
judicial systems work.


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http://jnelj.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/breaking-news-jordan-chandler-confesses-%E2%80%9Cmichael-jackson-didn%E2%80%99t-do-anything-to-me /
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Re: OT Sad News
well , admitting on tv  that he sleeps with  kids ,  he`s 100 % guilty , and
his managers finding him in bed with kidsmmmmmmm



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http://jnelj.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/breaking-news-jordan-chandler-confesses-%E2%80%9Cmichael-jackson-didn%E2%80%99t-do-anything-to-me /
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Re: OT Sad News



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We've already discussed that.  You settle ("pay out") when

 1) your team of attorneys have decided it's cheaper than
    trying the case.

 2) The cost of losing the case at trial is so high that you
    can't tolerate even a small chance of losing.  

You also have to balance those points against the liklihood
that a settlement will encourange other people to sue.
    
Being "guilty" or "innocent" doesn't even enter into the
calculation most of the time.

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Re: OT Sad News


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Guilt or Innocence has little to do with the justic...  oops - I mean
the legal system, often a "guilty" plea to something is simply a
result of a deal with the prosecution that results in an innocent
person getting "suspended sentence" rather than a certain jail time if
wrongly convicted by a jury. (especially a jury full of mark krawczuk
's).


When if comes to the bare facts of being free of jail to continue to
be able to work to support your family and not lose your house (and
then freedom) to pay the legal bills, when there is a dependant family
and children involved, almost all will step up and cop the deal to
protect their family.  This then results in yet another group of
extended family, friends, associates (who know the real truth)
turning for life against the police, courts, and media, and often
losing any respect for the law that is supposed to keep our society
functioning smoothly.  Another thing you should look at is the
queensland police (including the CMC who do the same) scam of
constantly issuing fake search warrants, often to intimidate people.
This probably happens all over the place for all we know.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24525576-421,00.html

Having a brother in law who is a barrister, who often tells of his
experiences of years in the legal system, and what really goes on
behind the scenes,  if most of you knew the truth,  you would stop all
this silly nonsense about the "police are always right and full of
integrity" and " everyone is a pedo / criminal " crap, which just
results from ignorance.




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Re: OT Sad News


Fact: 40-ish man invites little boys to come over and play with him in the
children's room he decorated for them in his house.
What bias do you need?
Guilty.


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Re: OT Sad News



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It is not illegal to do anything like that, although I admit that
these days (if a male) you would have to be totally crazy to  go
anywhere near kids or as much as look at or talk to children for fear
of being branded or assumed to be a pedo, let alone have them coming
to your house like jacko did.

I hope you dont have your kids friends come over, coach kids sport, or
work
legitimately with children in fully legal ways, just to have someone
makes false accusations against you, and then have someone like you
sit in judgement of you !

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Re: OT Sad News



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Bit of a stretch there!

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Yep, that's the way our society now is, you may not like it, but you have to
live with it or face the consequences.


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That's the way it is. Locally we have to pay for a police check to do most
of those things now (you recieve a "working with children" card, and it is a
crime to not have one when teaching, coaching, child minding etc.)

Men had better be careful kissing their own kids goodnight these days, let
alone do anything remotely suspicious with anybody else's kids!
Jacko was simply rich enough to ignore common sense. (which in his case was
probably just as well for him :-)

However I should point out I'm *not* saying he necessarily did anything that
would bother me or not. Like everyone else, I simply do not know all the
facts.

MrT.



Re: OT Sad News


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oops !

I meant "playing with" as in normal play/recreation, not "playing with
" in a
sexual way


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Its true, and agree with that.
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Same here.  A couple of friends who had high school age kids were
coaching swimming
and basketball respectively at their kids school (including their own
kids) outside school hours.  When the new requirements came in, about
80% of the parents in the groups just quit as they:
1> didn't want to "pay to volunteer" and
2> didn't want the hassle of forms, bureaucracy, interviews etc to
have the right to "do something for nothing".
3>Insulted at having their years of integrity as family men, with no
criminal record etc questioned
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I would add " even having kids" to that list.
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Agreed, none of us know, only jacko and the victims (if there are any)
will know.

The rest you can be assured will be based on media hype, loaded with
bullshit in order to sell more papers, get more viewers etc.  Even
jacko himself is for certain the product of media crafted image in
order to sell records, like just about any other "celebrity".


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Re: OT Sad News


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When you say "our society", are you just talking about Australia (though
I know it's somewhat similar in the UK)?  comp.arch.embedded is a very
international group, and some of us live in societies that are still
sane.  Where I live (small town Norway), kids can go to the play park
themselves, and when people go swimming in the nearby river, pre-school
kids are frequently naked.  I expect we have much the same level of
real, dangerous pedos as anywhere else - but we don't have imaginary
ones, and we don't run our society based on a paranoid fear.


Re: OT Sad News



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have to

Well yes, I was really referring to USA, Australia, UK etc. But you are
right, it certainly doesn't apply in some countries.

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Glad to hear some don't. But then there are others that still believe in
killing their children or siblings even.
(And even the Norwegians do things many others don't consider totally
"sane", like killing whales just because they've always done it.)

MrT.



Re: OT Sad News


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In every country there are people that stand out in their crimes or
ill-treatment of others - Norway is no different here.  But in
comparison to the UK (which as a Scot I know much better than the USA or
Australia), we seem to be much better at understanding that these people
are the exceptions.  Norway has its share of murderers, pedos, etc. -
but we don't treat innocent people as "potential murderers" or
"potential pedos".

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And just like people, every culture has its facets that others find
immoral or unethical (I can think of several regarding Australia, the
UK, and the USA - but I don't think spelling them out would add anything
here).

Whaling in Norway is a complicated issue, with many here strongly
supporting it and many strongly condemning it.  Part of the issue is, I
think, I desire to prove our independence.

Re: OT Sad News



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======================================================================================================
ah , hem , if  you have  gotten a police  check , read it carefully , it
says on the form , that  this doesnt prove  that your not wanted or done any
bad things..( basically )..
=======================================================================================================





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Re: OT Sad News



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most
is

any

So? That's just to cover their own arse, and doesn't contradict what I said,
i.e. it is now a legal requirement in some places to have such a card,
whether it proves anything or not!
No police check can ever prevent what *may* happen in the future, only weed
out some of those who have already been convicted of such an offence.
I guess the interesting question is whether Jacko would have been given one
:-) Rather a pointless debate now however.

MrT.



Re: OT Sad News


what  U THINK  he  " slept " with the kids and did nt   molest em.... dont
forget $ 20 million payout ///


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It is not illegal to do anything like that, although I admit that
these days (if a male) you would have to be totally crazy to  go
anywhere near kids or as much as look at or talk to children for fear
of being branded or assumed to be a pedo, let alone have them coming
to your house like jacko did.

I hope you dont have your kids friends come over, coach kids sport, or
work
legitimately with children in fully legal ways, just to have someone
makes false accusations against you, and then have someone like you
sit in judgement of you !

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Re: OT Sad News


and also he says  " its natural  to sleep with little children on tv "



what a wacko



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Re: OT Sad News



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Lol, not everyone sleeps in a palatial mansion with 10 bedrooms, 5
bathrooms and servants. In fact, I'd hazard a guess that one room
sleeping multiple adults and children is the norm throughout the world.

--

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days.



Re: OT Sad News



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But not so much when the house *IS* a palatial mansion with 10 bedrooms, and
the adult is not related to the children I imagine.

MrT.





Re: OT Sad News



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I don't think anybody is arguing that he's you average,
ordinary guy. ;)

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