Think twice before you buy Duracell batteries

You are a liar, a coward, and a weakling.

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

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A relative of mine imported the first batch of Duracell rechargeables into the UK and gave ma a dozen of them to test. I left six of them on a bedroom window sill and put six of them into a battery-operated tape recorder where they would get moderate use.

Within three months, the cells in the tape recorder began leaking and had to be thrown away. I then checked the cells on the window sill and found they were leaking too.

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~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ 
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www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Ditto for you.

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

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Come back when you've had enough of your "Yap! Yap! Yap!" routine and feel like trying for a bite at my ankle instead of trying to hump it. TIA.

You have to bind a hamster with sellotape so it doesn't split when you f*ck it.

Just taken a pair of dead Duracell AA cells out of a TV remote that had been laying around a long time - no evidence of leakage at all.

so I buy a couple of packs when I remember - just got to the back of the drawer where I keep them and found a couple of dud cells. One had a bit of corrosion on the negative contact, the other was clean.

That does not respond to what you responding to. He is talking about counterfeit batteries. What's more, heavy duty cells should not be used in remote controls because their power drain is so low. Operational battery life approaches shelf life.

Also proves nothing. A Kodak is a different brand and even if they were made at the same factory it could have been to different specs. And corrosion does not prove a leak at all.

If people are really getting leaks in those Duracells it is actually more likely that they "streamlined" their manufacturing process.

To know for sure you need to cut the thing apart and measure everything and then do a chemical analysis. If that fails to prove anything then you have to cut some more and look at the seams for defects. For a AA battery ?

On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 17:17:57 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: (...)

Look what I found on my battery "shelf": They were unopened until today, when I ripped open the left side to pull out a few batteries.

They're marked with a 7 shelf life. I'm only 2.7 years over the 2014 expiration date, but have no idea when I bought them. I guess it's "use them or lose them" because I stupidly used up newer battery packages before diving into the older batteries buried in the back of the battery "shelf".

Grumble, and $15 gone. Oddly, most of the batteries I pulled out and cleaned seem to work. I'll run a capacity test on a leaky battery later. No, I'm not going to put an expired and leaking battery in my toys.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

That's nothing. You probably have your first dollar and you got better cred it than at least 90 % of the population in this country.

But I do understand that $15 is probably $20 today. That can probably still get you a bag of weed over there in case you happen to smoke it.

Anyway, I think we have to see by now that batteries leak whether you use t hem or not. When depends on the brand I guess, or not so much. Maybe the ma nufacturer. The company that sells Duracells is probably not in the US so t hey probably have them made elswhere. Hell, Union Carbide was doing that in India when my sister still needed a fake ID to drink. Boy if I had some mo ney when their stock dropped like a rock I could have made a nice little pi le.

Speaking of which, how come that package says "Piles" on it ? Is that some foreign word for batteries ? In fact those aren't even batteries technicall y, they are cells. A battery means a bunch of them like a nine volt. But li ke alot of words in this country, they are used incorrectly, but once accep ted the thing is that the listener understands the speaker. But I have neve r seen the word piles on anything of the sort.

We have to treat them like electrolytic caps I guess. I have read plenty of people reporting that they leaked without ever being used.

rock I could have made a nice little pile.

the sort.

That is French for Battery ( or some such equal word). I bet if you look at the packge you will see some other words that may not be spelled in American English. Probably more French. That is to save from printing seperate packages for different languages.

Not sure how it relates to the modern usage,but the old batteries were called Voltaic piles in honor of the man Volta that had a lot to do with the first batteries (cells).

That's my lunch plus a tip.

It was a $2 bill and it disappeared in a move long ago. I replaced it with my first rubber check.

Yep. I am authorized by my predatory bank (Wells Fargo) to dig a bigger hole for myself and bury myself in it. As I get older, my credit improves even though my income has dropped. That's because the bank knows that I'll probably die before I pay off any loan and they can then grab the collateral.

Sorry. I don't recall what I paid. I just looked up what a 48 AAA box is currently selling at Costco. If it's really 10 years old, then I probably only paid about $10.

You would not believe how many retail "medical marijuana" places we have in the area. At the present rate, they'll outnumber tattoo parlors and electronic smoke shops. Looks like all I can get for $15 is a gram or two:

I had previously proclaimed that Costco Kirkland batteries leak less than Duracell batteries. Now, I'm not so sure. I guess the next questions are what makes them leak and how do I prevent leakage? Refrigeration?

Yep:

Dunno. A "bank" of batteries has always be referred to as a "pile". Note: This has little to do with my reference to a disorganized web site as a "web pile".

Thanks. I never thought of it that way. Sounds right. However, words and phrases have a tendency to change meaning. If you call a cell a battery often and long enough, the definition can change.

Yep. As with drugs and foods, an expiration date is a nifty feature for the manufacturer. Toss the battery out before it goes bad. Or, like the bulging electrolytics, toss the entire product out before the capacitors trash it. Kinda like a built in warranty timer.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

That's not an expensive lunch here. I can imagine there, perhaps a sandwich and bag of fries. And you probably want something to drink so that cuts in to it even more.

I haven't gone out for lunch in years, everybody just pays through it if yo u eat there, at least where I have worked. Which brings us to a cute little true story.

I lived in Cleveland and worked in Willowick which is about 23 miles to the east. Show was getting more and more business even though we were seriousl y high performance. i did three times the work of my predecessor, and (mayb e unfortunately taught them what to expect from a real tech) still it got t o the point where we could not keep up with it.

I didn't drive, I have had license problems for a long time, but only recen tly did I stop driving due to my eyesight. anyway he gets introduced to me as "another Electrasound graduate". Electrasound was factory service for al most everyone back then. They required a very high level of competence and had the over 100 page test to prove it. i beat 154 other applicants and got the job, as well as rewrote their test. There was a question they give you the schematic and some voltage readings and wanted you to put numbers by t he answers instead of just checking them off. Well I found an option they s hould have included but didn't. It got to the service manager and he said " Damn, he's right".

So between the two of this at the later company we had plety of clout. the boss would ask what we want for lunch and actually go get it for us. In ret rospect I think we could have made them pay for it as well but that didn't occur to us.

So one day Rich (the other Electrasound graduate they called us)and I decid ed we wanted to go out for lunch so we went to the Ground Round for a few b eers and some surf-n-turf. When it came time to go back to work Rich says " I don't like how he said "you guys won't come back" and i said "Me too". Th en I forget who said it but "Know what we should do ?". So guess what we di d. Now only that we called the shop and told him we need him to bring down about fifty bucks to pay the tab because we were caught short. His answer ? "I can't leave right now because everyone else is gone on the road". That was a lie but it was so much fun. Then we went to the strip joint after we caught a good enough buzz. Back then in Ohio you couldn't have nudity and a lcohol in the same business.

I digressed greatly, I will get serious in another post.

This horse is dead, flayed, flensed, rendered, tanned and dyed.

The difference between Duracell/Eveready/US-Made batteries is that if the u nits kill something, the Manufacturer will replace or pay. I received a che ck for $378 and change, representing the cost of a Geiger Counter that I pu rchased for $50 at surplus, when a pair of Eveready batteries self-destruct ed inside. They even refunded the cost of shipping the unit to them.

Otherwise, one is SOL and deserves _exactly_ what one gets.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Impressive. I managed to get about $20 from Eveready and $30 from Mallory for trashing various Maglites. I've filed a few random claims over the years, that usually get disappeared by the manufacturer.

Really? You seem ready to accept failure as inevitable and inexorable. I think otherwise.

Ever wonder why there are alkaline cells around that live a normal and useful life well beyond their expected lifetime? I've seen plenty of really old alkaline batteries that simply discharged their coulombs gracefully without a hint of leakage. Perhaps I'm using more alkaline batteries these days, but I don't seem to recall such massive a leakage problem during the 1970's. I certainly don't recall seeing any leak in the original packaging.

It might also be useful for you to consider the possibility that the leakage problem might be artificial and might easily be fixed by better sealing methods or construction methods. This explains the failure mechanism (hydrogen gas outgassing rupturing the vent seal). Now how hard would it be to make a better seal, or direct the gas away from the electrolyte? I would be tempted to conjure a conspiracy theory that this failure mode is intentional, since it sells plenty of batteries. Why fix something that produces sales?

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Bluntly, this happens to consumers because they are either careless or lazy and would rather complain than take effective action. Battery makers, in my experience jump all over themselves to make customers happy. Do you thi nk, after my experience I would ever buy a second tier battery?

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Right. Blame the victims. To most consumers, batteries are a commodity item, where the various manufacturers and labels are interchangeable. Perhaps an astute buying might read reviews or run a few tests, but the GUM (great unwashed masses) will tend to buy the same brand of battery repeatedly even when faced with demonstratable failures, leaks, counterfeits, and marginal warranties. The Energizer rabbit probably sold more batteries than any magazine or online battery review.

Also, "effective action" usually follows a complaint. More specifically, I have had a vendor spontaneously provide effective action or financial compensation without me providing a suitable complaint. Even if I were "careless and lazy", I can still produce a suitable complaint, which just might produce "effective action" by the battery vendor or manufacturer.

Yes, I do think you would, if you didn't know it was a second rate battery. That happens all the time, when a manufacturer outsources their production to the lowest bidder, changes supplier, or simply cheapens the product. I can supply examples if you need them. I have no idea what company manufacturers Kirkland batteries, or even if it's only one company. Volume manufacturers usually have multiple suppliers, between which they arrange bidding wars to produce the absolute lowest possible price. A drop in quality is implied, but never mentioned. If it lasts the warranty period, it's good enough. In this case, the Kirkland batteries probably lasted the required 7 year shelf life.

If you were a Prepper, who stores batteries for some future Armageddon, shelf life would be a major issue. Devices with low drain and low duty cycle, where the battery would be expected to last well beyond its shelf life is another problem area. For these users, there are better types of cells available, such as Lithium AA at 5 times the cost of alkaline cells. However, for the commodity applications, alkaline cells are cheap, commonly available, cheap, fairly reliable, cheap, warranties, cheap, and did I mention cheap? So for your commodity applications, where a $2 cell is not an economical option, you're stuck with the $0.40 alkaline cell. Yes, I think you will be buying 2nd rate batteries, unless you can find a genuine leak proof alkaline for the same price.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Now, here is where you go off the rails. When one purchases a 'house brand' to save a few pennies towards a critical application, the consequences of such a choice are to be factored into it. "I have no idea what company..." means that you accept without qualification or complaint that these devices may be second tier.

And that is exactly my point. Batteries, whether in use or not are wearing parts - just like tires. In an urban setting or areas where there are eleva ted levels of ozone, tires 'age out" in anywhere between 3 and 6 years depe nding on the type and composition. Those who do not keep this in mind are t aking their lives in their hands.

Battery manufacturers make their batteries *JUST* good enough to support th eir price-point, and no more. Those that do not support an infrastructure t hat provides warranties and replacements are at a significant advantage. An d, like lemmings, the great unwashed gobble them up based on price, alone. Then have the temerity to whine and pule about the results.

Two things - one philosophical, one very practical: If that first package o f underwear at $3.29 from China stayed on the shelf for the $3.69 package m ade in the US, life would be different in this country today. But, no, the great unwashed gobbled them up, saving that $0.40. Little did they realize or care that their neighbors lost their jobs thereby *UNTIL* their own job s were threatened - and you could hear them howl three states away. Do you want to give up a small, but vital technology to the Chinese? Do you want i t such that your flashlight/radio/game depends on a 12,000 mile supply line crossing (at least) one ocean?

Lastly, do you know that there is not one single LCD device manufactured in the US. Not one. That Boeing aircraft would have analog controls were it t o depend on US sources. Or, that fighter jet, gauges in a nuclear submarine . The US does not even have the tooling or basic infrastructure to make LCD devices were the need to arise. It would probably take 2-3 years to ramp u p. So, yes, we can entirely lose vital industries by neglect, ignorance or by simply not recognizing the implications.

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

in the US. Not one. That Boeing aircraft would >have analog controls were it to depend on US sources. Or, >that fighter jet, gauges in a nuclear subm arine. The US does >not even have the tooling or basic infrastructure to ma ke LCD >devices were the need to arise. It would probably take 2-3 >years t o ramp up. So, yes, we can entirely lose vital >industries by neglect, igno rance or by simply not recognizing >the implications. "

No rockets either, the US buys them from Russia. So bitch Clinton wants to start shit with them. And both candidates probably want to start shit in th e South China Sea.

Good thinking. How's that globalism working out forya now ?