Soda Maker: How long does it take carbon dioxide to diffuse into 4C cold water at 30psi?

The Troll is back. Please do not feed the troll.

Diffusion is slow*. You can calculate it. There is probably some thermally driven currents in water that will mix things faster. To get an idea of speed put a drop of food coloring into water.

George H. (*I'm not sure about water, but I mixed up my own tanks of gas for a CO2 laser and it took weeks to diffuse... surprised the hell out of me.)

Yes, it can be slow compared to many uses of the word "slow". I've brewed tea in glass and watched the tea diffuse. Since the water is hot the diffusion is faster and the cooling causes some current, so you can actually

be much slower. Stirring mixes up the water to bring fresh to the surface. Better yet is to push the gas through the water as tiny bubbles which is what they do at a soda fountain. Nearly instantaneous diffusion.

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Rick C 

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, 
on the centerline of totality since 1998

I can't tell you how fast it will diffuse if the gas is just exposed to the one surface of the liquid when the container is upright. But I can tell you that gentle agitation will greatly shorten the time for the gas to dissolve into the liquid. A friend of mine, who owns a brewery, told me how he carbonates beer sometimes in a "Corny" keg. These are the small diameter kegs seen at portable soda fountains. The ones he carbonates at home are the 5 gallon size. He fills 'em with the liquid, pressurizes 'em, then lays them on the floor and rolls them back and forth for about 1/2 hour while watching TV. Eric

brewed

I think a major area where agitation makes a big difference is in the absorption of CO2 in sea water. O2 too, for that matter!

Mike.

The agitation helps through the creation of tiny bubbles greatly increasing the surface area. If you think about it the agitation itself would do nothing. Shake a soda bottle that is 100% full and it won't change the pressure appreciably. Shake a soda bottle that has some air space and the increase in pressure from the CO2 coming out of solution will be large.

Well... to be honest, I've never actually tried this. It would be worth an experiment if I had any soda on hand. I have heard of a simple drop causing a soda bottle to explode. Perhaps that is from both the shock to the bottle and an increase in pressure from released CO2. To be sure the soda bottle would need to be 100% full. Shake vigorously or even drop it on the floor and then open it... well... or maybe a pressure gauge can be attached... lol

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Rick C 

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, 
on the centerline of totality since 1998

But, but, but, what should I do for entertainment value? The best I can find in sci.electronics.repair is punching reset on a refrigerator and painting stripes on resistors. Lacking anything more interesting, feeding an off topic carbonation question will keep me entertained and out of trouble for at least for a few days.

There once was a usenet troll. Who thought he was on a roll. He often did send, some post without end, while waiting for bells that toll.

We return you now to whatever you should be doing.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

To fulfil some higher purpose? Now there's a whole new topic for debate (if I could be bothered...)!

Mike.

Either way, its nothing that a chemistry book can't fix. (They don't actually bite)

Of course. There is no higher purpose than to delay the inevitable demise of civilization from being buried in the debris left by unrepaired products. Post apocolyptic movies feature mountains of non-functional junk laying around for the actors to hide behind as they shoot at each other. What higher purpose can there be than the repair of everything civilization can produce so that the actors have nothing to hide behind? Without repair, every product would come with an expiration data after which it would self destruct. Without repair, the landfills will overflow with dead devices. Without repair, everyone would be forced to pay full list price as used, refurbished, and reconditioned will cease to exist. As long as we strive to repair, we can be certain that our efforts are for the greater good of mankind, which will end in a utopian society where nothing is wasted and everything lasts forever. No civilization has yet repaired its way to greatness, but we could be the first.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Hmm and yet I feel we are fighting in a 'security screw' arms race. I've got my ~100 piece set from harbor freight,

When I went to take apart my latest coffee maker, I found that the tripoint screw was down a long narrow tunnel, such that the screw driver bit holder was to wide to fit. Curses! Fortunately I fixed the no hot water problem, by running vinegar through the machine several times. But still it does not bode well for future failures.

George H.

As far as the life of the planet is concerned, there is little we can do as individuals or as a species that will affect the planet in any material wa y. All we can do is hasten/impede the next whatisit that comes along follow ing on our heels. But, follow it will despite all our efforts.

Charles Addams had a cartoon: Nuclear Holocaust - last two living creatures on earth (single-cell) look at each other deciding whether to start over o r not. One says to the other: "Only, this time, no brains".

Keep in mind that the moment humans became involved with the survival of ot her humans, evolution (within the human species) effectively stopped dead i n its tracks. Evolution has the singular goal to to produce *more*, not nec essarily *better* exemplars of any given species - that being the singular definition of "fittest". "Units" that age past the ability to reproduce are impediments to 'more'. Therefore diseases relating to aging are irrelevant to the survival of the species. Diseases that affect reproduction in any n egative way at all are impediments to survival. Habits that reduce reproduc tion are impediments to survival.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, an d replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of th e sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that movet h upon the earth. Genesis 1:28, King James

The purpose of the human (any) species is to reproduce itself - per Evoluti on in any case. Again, evolution has ceased in any meaningful way. Like a s hark, either a species improves (moves), or it dies. We are moribund, the o nly matter for discussion is how long it will take.

Finally, on a planetary scale, even that amount of time will be momentary.

Carpe Diem (Horace)

Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Hey what happens if I take a drill to the plastic hole. I bust the whole thing up, get the screw out, and then need some longer 'nice' screw to put it back together. It won't look as nice from the back.

If the plastic is thick enough I might make the hole big enough to get the bit holder down it, without breaking.

I need some big jig, to hold things on my drill press.

George H.

What? You don't feel more secure with security screws in place? Just think of all the bad things that can happen to the company if one of their screws is not properly secured. Obviously, something must be done to prevent screws from "accidentally" falling out.

I have two of the same kits. Far too many duplicate bits.

Latest? I deduce that your coffee makers are exhibiting a rather short half life. Have you considered buying something more durable? Oh wait... I forgot that you can no longer buy quality appliances at any price. Never mind.

Yeah, that's a common problem. I have a few assorted long round shank screwdrivers that have been modified on my bench grinder and Dremel tool to fit various security screws. If I'm desperate, I'll cut off the top, and braze it to a steel rod. If you're lazy, take a Dremel cutoff disk and cut a notch in the base of the bit to fit an screwdriver blade.

Perhaps this set of extra long security bits?

As long as there is lime (calcium carbonate and oxide) dissolved in your coffee water, you're going to have the problem. The trick is to clean the coffee maker BEFORE it totally clogs and won't pass any vinegar. Unless you like drinking distilled water (it tastes "flat") or you buy a water softener, you're stuck with an occasional vinegar flush.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Humans have been around for about 80,000 generations. That's not really enough time for a whatisit to appear and take over.

I have no interest in saving the human race, which may be impossible. My only interest is to slow down the trend towards non-repairable products and filling the landfills with devices that can be repaired. We may well meet our well deserved collective demise from our own inventions, but at least with repairable products, the end might be delayed somewhat.

Keep it simple. Your purpose in life is to consume, pollute, and over-populate. Failing to perform any of these assigned tasks is severely punished by society. Once you understand that, the rest of the puzzle falls into place without much effort.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Book? This is the 21st century. Today, we do web pages, blogs, forums, wikis, YouTube tutorials, online courses, and online reading. Books are an anachronism. I tried to read a reference book a few days ago and couldn't find what I wanted. Then, I remembered that there was a table of contents and an index, both of which proved to be useless. I want my search tools, not a word list and pointers to multiple pages. Used in the traditional manner, books can bite if you can't find what you need. I suggest you modernize your suggestion and offer something online instead.

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Oh, that's a good idea! I was thinking we/they need to market a bit set that also has a hex shaped indentation on the back side so that you could drive it with an Allen wrench.

Right, the arms race continues.

George H.

In a previous life, I had to deal with security screws, which were required by a few customers and creative spec writers. There is an amazing amount of creativity possible.

I thought I was being clever when I specified these fasteners: but ran into problems when someone shipped the radio to an Arab country.

Google gets my pure evil award for specifying fasteners that use a friction driver on their Google-Mini server: A screw extractor in the hole didn't work because the stainless steel fasteners are hardened and it would slip. I would normally slot the head with a Dremel cutoff tool, but the customer wanted everything back to stock just in case Google would honor the warranty. Eventually, they did after all the electrolytics started to bulge and leak. I had to make a special tool, using a rubber bicycle inner tube for friction, in order to remove the screws, after about 2 hrs of trial, error, and swearing.

I won't mention Apple and their Pentalobe screw heads. I think that the drivers were available on eBay before the iPhone 4 was released, which probably inspired Apple to now glue its products together.

I also run into security screws on bicycles. I would hate to find some of these odd pattern fasteners and not have a matching driver:

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Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

I hate all the 'special' screw heads just to try and keep people from turning them. I have several chain saws ,leaf blowers, and other small engines that each one takes a special tool just to adjust the carborator. Seems like there are 5 or more special tools just to adjust the carborators. One company does not offer their tool to anyone but their service companies. I had to take my Dremal tool and cut a slot in the head so a regular screw driver would fit.

Those spcial tools only slow down people and do nt seem to stop anyone.