Inexpensive replacement for these garage flourescent lights?

What are the pros and cons of just replacing the bulbs with LEDs? (Instead of putting in four new LED fixture assemblys?)

The Costco item number for the 2-pack I bought is 1063293.

Here is a link to the Costco 4pack (but I got the 2 pack).

Here is a web page about these bulbs:

Here is the Feit Electric web site, who is the manufacturer I think:

That web site says they are a "Direct replacement for fluorescent 4ft T8 and T12 lamps" and the specs they give at that web site are: Feit Electric Company, Pico Rivera CA,

The box says, in multiple places.

1. "Convert your old fluorescent fixture to led by simply replacing the tubes".
2. "No rewiring, use existing fixture".
3. Simply remove any 4 ft. fluorescent tube and replace with these new led tubes!"

The package says "1700 lumens, 41000K Cool White, 17 Watts, 50,000 life hours*, uses 47% less energy."

The asterisk on the "50,000 life hours" says "Rated life is based on using in fixture with T8 electronic ballast. Life will vary depending on ballast type".

What type of ballast do I have?

R-12 is a fat tube that is now obsolete. T-8 is a newer version. Look at the existing tubes to see what you have now. The ballast is under the metal cover in the center.

Since you have the new tubes, put them in and see what happens. If it works, great, if not, take them back. Let us know the result.

I called Feit Electric at their 800 number 866-326-2852 to ask what type o9f ballast I have and the lady told me to read off what the old bulb said, and the moment I said it was 40 watts, she told me I have a T12 ballast.

I'm not so sure what ballast I have because I put those replacement fluorescent bulbs from Ace in myself, and there's no guarantee that I knew what I was doing when I put them in, so, they could be a T8 ballast which the lady told me was 15W to 18W.

I had brought an old bulb with me, as I recall, but there's no guarantee that the previous owner didn't put in the wrong fluorescent bulbs either.

Anyway, she said the Feit bulbs I bought from Costco will work with either a T8 ballast or a T12 ballast, but that they'll last less long with a T12 ballast.

I told her that some of my four 4-bulb fixtures are humming and she said that means the ballast is bad, and not to put the LED bulbs in those ballasts.

She also said that if the LED bulbs flicker or don't go on, to pull them out as that means they're not compatible with the fixture.

If the bulbs don't work, she recommended the Feit Costco item #1057373 which is a $60 shop light 2 pack "linkable" set:

I guess what "linkable" means is that I can put the two of them together, somehow, to look like one unit? (Reading the reviews, it appears that they have a receptacle on them, so that's what it probably means, but the reviewer wasn't sure, and Feit doesn't say what 'linkable' means either).

This review says T12 lamps have been banned (I didn't know that):

Cost, unless you find equivalent fixtures at the same price of the lamps.

The lamps you have look like T12. That means, according to the LED info, your LEDs will not reach the 50,000 hours because you are using T12 ballasts.

You are correct.

All 16 of the 4-foot fluorescent bulbs said they were 40 watts, rapid start, average life 12,000 hours.

Of the four ceiling mounted units, three worked fine either with four T12/40W fluorescent bulbs or with four T8 LED bulbs.

The one ceiling unit that was humming badly had two ballasts inside when I removed the center covering steel plate:

Both ballasts were of the same type, with a sticker on each saying Universal Therm-o-matic rapid start ballast For two F40W T12/RS lamps, high power factor Cat No 446-LR-TC-P, 120V, 60Hertz, 0.8Amp line Universal Mfg. Corp, Paterson NJ, Made in USA Class P Automatic resetting thermal protected

Even though only one ballast is humming badly, I found the oddest situation when I put in either just one known-good fluorescent bulb or just 1 of the new LED bulbs.

Only one lane worked with just one bulb, which was this lane, which I'll call lane 2 since it's the second one from the outside:

But when I put the single bulb in any other lane (leaving the rest of the lanes empty) the bulb didn't light up (whether it was fluorescent or LED).

Is there any way to tell which two of the four lanes *each* ballast controls?

Does the one good ballast control the two inside lanes?

Or does one ballast control the two lanes next to each other?

Or does the one ballast control every other lane?

A four lamp fixture with two ballasts will operate two lamps each. One will control the outer lamps and the other will control the inner lamps. To determine what ballast controls what lamps, you need to follow a wire to the tombstone (pin) connection of the lamp. For example, follow the yellow wire to one of the connectors. If it's the inner lamp, then that ballast controls those two lamps and the other will control the outer two.

I've looked this up last night, watching videos and googling how the things work so I agree with you that it's 1 ballast for 2 lamps.

My ballast is so old, that it's made in the United States (NJ in fact). So it's probably no longer sold since it's most likely "magnetorestrictive", which means that it squeezes an iron core at 120 cycles per second (which is causing the loud hum in one of the two ballasts).

Apparently there is no repair; it can only be replaced, but it can't be found, so it has to be replaced with a different ballast, which may have to be T8 because they may no longer even sell T12 ballasts.

Thanks for saying that one controls outer and one controls inner. Is that the standard setup?

Yes. I saw videos where people followed those wires. I like the name "tombstone", as it fits the rounded-top rectangular shape.

I also found out that a T12 is 12/8ths of an inch in diameter, so, just looking at the lamps, I should have known that the diameter indicated a T12 while the diameter of the LEDs indicated a T8 (8/8ths of an inch), although neither seems to be that large in diameter in actuality.

Yes. You are correct, in that I looked this up and these are the colors: The ballast has 2 yellows that go to both prongs at one end of two lamps. It has 2 reds that go to both prongs of the other end of the first one of those two lamps, and then it has 2 blues that go to both prongs of the other end of the second of those two lamps.

I think I just have to remove stuff to see where the ballasts go, but in looking up how to replace them, I realized that I will never find a 1:1 replacement.

I think it may be "easier" and more cost effective to just replace the entire assembly. Any suggestions for an inexpensive replacement?

I understand that due to the 110/230 voltage differences, fluorescent tubes and their ballasts are wired differently on each side of the Atlantic, but over here converting a fluorescent fitting to LEDs usually involves removing the ballast and starter, is that not the case over there?

For about $ 20 you can get a single electronic ballast that will run all

You will have to follow the wiring diagram that is on the ballast as it will be different from the old one. The new ones are made to fit in the same bracket/screw holes as one of the older ones.

nt

i replaced all mine with led tubes that run directly off of 110v. ditch the ballasts, they draw a lot of current . i bought the tubes from earthled.co m . have had them 18 months so far, and they are great. work well in 10 deg winter garage too, no flicker. make sure your tombstones arent shunted( b oth terminals connected together internally). some are , some arent, some just have a jumper wire you can cut.

It's bad, but not by intent.

Looks like a standard T12 bulb. It's real easy to test though. Each "T" in a bulb designator is 1/8th of an inch. T8s are 1 inch in diameter for example. T5 is 5/8th inch etc.

LED retrofits are usually real stupid in practice as there's no point of installing "efficient" lighting in an old s***ty fixture. Running LEDs off an old magnetic ballast is is just way convoluted. Ballasts die all the time anyways and if they go, they're likely to take anything connected to them with it.

The best move is get a new fixture. It will have a new electronic ballast and will take better skinnier flourescent bulbs. It will be the best of all worlds- cheap bulbs, no flicker and good colored qualities. LEDs can't touch that, especially cheapo stuff at the discount warehouse.

The last ballast I replaced was in an 8 foot fixture that could not be moved without messing up the ceiling. That was the only compelling reason to just leave it alone, plus the owner still had supply of those bulbs.

Correct. T12 are obsolete.

Yes. The other set up would be a single four lamp ballast.

Correct. A T8 is supposed to be 1 inch in diameter.

Ballasts are now becoming universal. In that, I mean, they can accommodate voltage of 120 to 277 and they no longer have two wires of each color. Instead, they offer one red and two blues. Each of those wires connects with the two wires from each lamp. Thus, the single red will connect to the two yellows, one blue will connect to two blues and the other blue will connect to the two reds.

Unfortunately, inexpensive replacements usually mean cheap ballasts which will not last long. Also keep in mind if you continue to use fluorescent fixtures, when a lamp is burned out, it is best to replace asap to ensure long life of the ballast. When a lamp isn't working, the ballast continuously attempts igniting the non-working lamp and that decreases the life of the ballast.

When LEDs were first available as replacements for tubed fluorescent, they had to be direct wired (removal of ballasts). Now they've made LEDs to use the existing ballasts as it's driver. Though, that could still differ based on geographic location.

Not sure where you obtain your info but LED lamps offer a wide range of lumen output and color output and they don't flicker unless they are cheap LEDs. The price of fluorescent tubes are increasing, even T8s while LEDs are still decreasing.

As I stated in another reply, fluorescent lamps can last a very long time if they remain on all day or use a program start ballast. The constant on/off is what kills them prematurely. LEDs can handle the on/off for years and their only problem is losing light output after the manufactures lifetime claim.

Thanks, as I want brutal honesty in all the answers.

What's good is that the LEDs "supposedly" save about 50% in energy costs (they say). What's bad is that I don't see how that can happen given we're still using the old T12 ballasts, which controls the current, right?

What's really bad is that the T12 ballast will burn out the T8 LEDs quicker (how quick? Dunno.) so maybe I don't get the long life either.

One really good thing is that overdriving these LED lights makes the garage light up like daylight now. It's amazingly bright with 16 of these LEDs in place (actually, only 12 because one fixture has one or maybe two bad ballasts).

I measured with a ruler. a. The T8 LED is actually 1 inch in diameter (8/8ths). b. The T12 40W fluorescents are only 1-3/8ths (so it's actually a T11)

This is a good point in that the original T12 ballasts are due to die sooner than the LED bulbs will die, especially since the original ballasts are so old that they're made in the USA (which means they're really old).

And when the original ballasts die, the T8 LED bulbs will be useless.

I think I really have only two decent choices, given that cost is a factor (although saving on electricity is also a factor).

1. Buy a whole new LED fixture (the color of the existing LEDs is fantastic)
2. Put a T8 electronic ballast into each

I just want to get rid of the buzzing of the one bad fluorescent ballast, and to rid myself of the bulb-changing hassle once and for all, but not at too steep a price.

Thanks for that suggestion!

How does this one look from Home Depot?

One question is whether I need "instant start" or "programmed/rapid start":

I think I need "rapid" start because that's what is there now, I think.

Since cost is a major issue for me (I have little money but want to get rid of the buzzing from the bad ballast and if I can get rid of fluorescent tubes and save money on electricity, that would be a plus), here's the cost breakdown:

$20 for the T8 electronic ballast $28 for the four T8 LED bulbs

----------------- %50 roughly, for the retrofit

Is that my best option?

You've hit upon the major flaw of my "retrofit".

I wanted to get rid of the fluorescent, especially since one of them buzzes loudly. But I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars just now.

People suggested LEDs for two reasons: a. Energy cost b. Convenience

I think the solution I came up with, which fits into a fixture with T8 ballast, is hitting me on both:

A. I don't see how it saves energy yet, since it's the same ballast B. The T8 LEDs may burn out far more quickly since it's a T12 ballast

On the first point, I admit I'm confused. How can it save *any* energy, if the ballast is the same?

The LED box says "Uses 47% less energy" where it clarifies that in the small print saying "47% energy savings is based on the difference between using a

In my case, I have the non-electronic ballast, and it's 40Watts. I'm confused.

Plus my energy costs are three times the 11 cents they seem to use in the LED light numbers.

So, I'm confused.

Does any of this mean I'll get more or less than the roughly half savings of energy costs?

How?

My head hurts on trying to figure out just how a legacy ballast can worh with a retrofitted LED tube, but they do. I've installed a few of them.

I measured the before and after using a Kil-a-watt brand meter. Don't have the paper here, but the measurements were something like the following.

twin "40" fluorescent fixture:

Ballast only w/no lamps: 12 watts Ballast w/both lamps: 84

Retrofitted with a "drop in" LED:

Ballst w/LEDs: 60

Light output was higer with the LEDs.

Again, these are NOT the exact numbers, but there definitely was a savings when using the drop in replacements.

Ahem... There are other LED failure modes: