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(household) appliances

Hi,

We're in the process of some significant remodeling/updating, here. Among the items we're looking to purchase are all/most of the major home appliances: frig, dishwasher, oven/stove/range, washer, dryer (hmmm... why isn't that "drier"? :> ), water softener, hot water heater, etc.

I have been disappointed in the choices available for most of these items. "Too much electronic content" :-/

E.g., we are in a good market (DSW) for solar water heating. Ignoring the exhorbitant prices these folks want to charge for these things (hint: you can buy 10 conventional water heaters -- INSTALLED -- for the price of one solar unit!), I am leary of the electronic content in some of the units we've examined (we have also looked at "on demand" heaters -- same issue applies).

I can just see the inevitable service call: "Yup, you're gonna need a new computer board. That'll be $400...". Of course, expecting anyone to actually

*repair* (instead of swap out) these things -- least of all a PLUMBER -- is ridiculous. Despite the fact that, I imagine, most repairs would be trivial.

The same holds true of all the other appliances I mentioned.

And, even with the right skillset, I suspect *I* would be screwed as the manufacturers wouldn't make available any detailed documentation to let me do a component level repair ("Does refrigerator cool? If yes, proceed to step 3; if no, REPLACE assembly 107X-3")

This is further complicated by some of the numbers salesgrunts tout regarding life expectancy of many of these appliances (7 years for a $3000 refrigerator?? Jeez! The one we have now is > 20 years old; the one in my folks' basement is over 50...)

Anyone have any firsthand insights into this stuff? I've just started poking around to see what sorts of parts *are* available (to get a clue for what can be repaired/replaced) but my research is in its infancy...

Maybe a cave in the hills is a better option??

Thx,

--don

Reply to
D Yuniskis
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I always wanted to buy a decommissioned missile silo. :)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.
Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

I have to agree with you! Our range has moved with us simply because there are no new ones with the features this one has, PLUS I can fix this one. So far it has had one rebuilt clock [$35 18 years ago] amd one bottom oven element [$25 5 years ago]. The refrigierator came new with this house [10 years ago] and the processor board failed 3 years ago so there is your 7 year life. New board $85, but I fixed the old one as a 'spare' since it was a $0.35 electrolytic that had failed. On all the other stuff, one simply hopes tnat the electronics are well made. One wonders how a washer and lead free solder on the PCB will work out with that level of vibration.

Neil S.

Reply to
nesesu

Hi Neil,

[my rants about electronics in appliances]

My attitude towards my automobile! :>

Yes, even the "elements" (used to be called calrods?) are now magical and mysterious! "Induction heating"? Can you spell "more expensive to fix"? :-/

I was sort of hoping the salesman was exagerating on that! :<

So, hopefully "problems" are obvious? I would assume all of the processors, etc. are custom and/or masked parts so there is no easy way of figuring out *why* it is refusing to work, etc.?

Was your repair (replacement) something you could/did yourself? Or, did someone have to diagnose it for you (for a fee, above the $85 replacement cost, of course!)?

[i.e., labor costs are the killer]

Exactly.

Its annoying because you know that there isn't any real "rocket science" in these things. The electronics are just glorified relays and timers (to a first order approxmation). Yet, with relays and timers, you can *see* what's not working. With electronics, you have to wonder *why* the processor isn't turning on the pump, etc.

Reply to
D Yuniskis

Hi Neil,

[my rants about electronics in appliances]

My attitude towards my automobile! :>

Yes, even the "elements" (used to be called calrods?) are now magical and mysterious! "Induction heating"? Can you spell "more expensive to fix"? :-/

I was sort of hoping the salesman was exagerating on that! :<

So, hopefully "problems" are obvious? I would assume all of the processors, etc. are custom and/or masked parts so there is no easy way of figuring out *why* it is refusing to work, etc.?

Was your repair (replacement) something you could/did yourself? Or, did someone have to diagnose it for you (for a fee, above the $85 replacement cost, of course!)?

[i.e., labor costs are the killer]

Exactly.

Its annoying because you know that there isn't any real "rocket science" in these things. The electronics are just glorified relays and timers (to a first order approxmation). Yet, with relays and timers, you can *see* what's not working. With electronics, you have to wonder *why* the processor isn't turning on the pump, etc.

Reply to
D Yuniskis

"nesesu" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@s24g2000pri.googlegroups.com...

On Oct 17, 1:55 pm, D Yuniskis wrote:

I agree, but with a caveat. First the caveat: The electronically controlled appliances can really work a lot better and provide more features than the older mechanical switch and relay designs. Now the agree part: I have a fairly new washing machine that I really like. Six months after the one year warranty expired on the washing machine, it died one day. It would not respond to any buttons and appeared completely dead except the front plate was quite warm in one place. A quick check on the manufacturers web site said the control board assembly was $450 (list price). I took the machine apart and this control board assembly has three separate circuit boards that have soldered jumpers connecting them. Two of the boards contain only push button switches and lights. The third fairly large board has the processor, other control and interfacing logic, some more user controls and lights, and the alphanumeric display. The power supply and variable speed motor control electronics were elsewhere. The heat was coming from an onboard 5 volt regulator operating into a dead short on the 5 volt line feeding all of the circuitry. To make a long story short, I started trouble shooting the main board and eventually found a very small shorted surface mount capacitor between the 5 volt line and ground. After replacing that, everything returned to normal. If the assembly was priced at $50 I might have replaced it, but $450 provided a lot of motivation to do a component level repair. I hate to think what the final price would have been if I had called a service company.

David

Reply to
David

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